4 ms·

Italy doesn't have a "broken economy". It's a stereotype that just won't die no matter what, I guess. Their politics and everything connected to it are arguably

Italy doesn't have a "broken economy". It's a stereotype that just won't die no matter what, I guess. Their politics and everything connected to it are arguably a bit more haphazardly than what's common in countries further north. But they have a solid industrial base and have been economically stable for 30+ years.

toyg 4y ago
If anything, Italy is practically the most trustworthy treasury in the world: despite the highest debt/GDP ratio in the world after Japan, they have never defaulted on debt and even resorted to effectively expropriating their own citizens overnight rather than missing payments.
- tlamponi 4y ago
  > even resorted to effectively expropriating their own citizens overnight rather than missing payments. source on that one?
  - toyg 4y ago
    Google "Tassa patrimoniale Amato 1992". The government directly fetched 0.6% of all current account balances overnight.
    - tlamponi 4y ago
      Thanks for that! The speculation against the pound and lira I heard of, but that was before my time and the retroactive tax wasn't ever thought in school, at least I'd like to think that I had remembered such things. Not sure how that would play out on todays (well, current as today Italy's last gov is no more) landscape...
  - Phurist 4y ago
    You would not be able to understand it, it's domestic.
    - tlamponi 4y ago
      What do you mean by that comment? I _am_ Italian.
kgwgk 4y ago
Stable is not as good as growing: https://i.redd.it/puoyn3g0fb311.jpg https://i.redd.it/puoyn3g0fb311.jpg
qwytw 4y ago
> have been economically stable for 30+ years Assuming 'stable' is a synonim for stagnationg and slow decline then yes. The 90's were pretty good but there has been been almost no real growth after the Euro was introduced in 1999. It's even worse in relative terms. Back in 1995-2000 Italy's GDP per capita was around 130% of the EU average, now it's less than 100% and not that far from the more succesful Eastern European countries which joined in 2004 (around 80-85%). And these numbers only tell a part of the story since the average GDP per capita went down significancly after most ex-communist countries joined the EU between 2004 and 2007. France, Germany, UK & Italy had almost equal GDP per capita in 2000, Italy was even ahead of France and Britain during most of the 1990's and look what happened later: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD?locations=IT-FR-DE-GB-EE https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD?locat... Obiouviously Italy is still a rich country with a "strong" economy but if it stays on the same trajectory for the next few decades it will likely become one of the poorest countries in the EU.
- petre 4y ago
  > not that far from the more succesful Eastern European countries which joined in 2004 Most of those countries aren't in the Eurozone, with the notable exceptions of Slovakia and Lithuania.
  - qwytw 4y ago
    Also Estonia, Latvia, Slovenia so the majority of countries which joined in 2004 have the Euro. If you also count Romania and Bulgaria which joined a couple of years later exactly 1/2 of the new member are in the eurozone.

toyg 4y ago

If anything, Italy is practically the most trustworthy treasury in the world: despite the highest debt/GDP ratio in the world after Japan, they have never defaulted on debt and even resorted to effectively expropriating their own citizens overnight rather than missing payments.

tlamponi 4y ago
> even resorted to effectively expropriating their own citizens overnight rather than missing payments. source on that one?
- toyg 4y ago
  Google "Tassa patrimoniale Amato 1992". The government directly fetched 0.6% of all current account balances overnight.
  - tlamponi 4y ago
    Thanks for that! The speculation against the pound and lira I heard of, but that was before my time and the retroactive tax wasn't ever thought in school, at least I'd like to think that I had remembered such things. Not sure how that would play out on todays (well, current as today Italy's last gov is no more) landscape...
- Phurist 4y ago
  You would not be able to understand it, it's domestic.
  - tlamponi 4y ago
    What do you mean by that comment? I _am_ Italian.

kgwgk 4y ago

Stable is not as good as growing: https://i.redd.it/puoyn3g0fb311.jpg https://i.redd.it/puoyn3g0fb311.jpg

qwytw 4y ago

> have been economically stable for 30+ years Assuming 'stable' is a synonim for stagnationg and slow decline then yes. The 90's were pretty good but there has been been almost no real growth after the Euro was introduced in 1999. It's even worse in relative terms. Back in 1995-2000 Italy's GDP per capita was around 130% of the EU average, now it's less than 100% and not that far from the more succesful Eastern European countries which joined in 2004 (around 80-85%). And these numbers only tell a part of the story since the average GDP per capita went down significancly after most ex-communist countries joined the EU between 2004 and 2007. France, Germany, UK & Italy had almost equal GDP per capita in 2000, Italy was even ahead of France and Britain during most of the 1990's and look what happened later: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD?locations=IT-FR-DE-GB-EE https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD?locat... Obiouviously Italy is still a rich country with a "strong" economy but if it stays on the same trajectory for the next few decades it will likely become one of the poorest countries in the EU.

petre 4y ago
> not that far from the more succesful Eastern European countries which joined in 2004 Most of those countries aren't in the Eurozone, with the notable exceptions of Slovakia and Lithuania.
- qwytw 4y ago
  Also Estonia, Latvia, Slovenia so the majority of countries which joined in 2004 have the Euro. If you also count Romania and Bulgaria which joined a couple of years later exactly 1/2 of the new member are in the eurozone.