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If you’re unwilling to make any sacrifice for the greater good then you’re asking the world to serve perfection to you without any effort on your part. You can

If you’re unwilling to make any sacrifice for the greater good then you’re asking the world to serve perfection to you without any effort on your part. You can’t get a cheap second hand electric car that you can charge for free at your home? That’s unfortunate, but there are other options beyond “well whatever I’ll just get a petrol car then”. Your government represents you, your government is not a nebulous self-sufficient entity that exists independent of you and your fellow country people. If your government isn’t doing enough, it’s up to you and the people around you to be a force for good, to do everything in your power to create change. Even if sometimes it feels fruitless, do it. Be the best you can be. Also, the idea that you and I are shouldering the cost of the energy transition is completely ignorant to the realities of the world. The catastrophic disasters that we, the developed world, have created, are an order of magnitude worse in the global south than they will ever be for us. People are dying every day because of our choice to use fossil fuels, we are destroying the planet, your increased cost of living or exposure to the heat doesn’t come close to the suffering of people who are paying the price for our choices. Yes, this heatwave in Europe is painful, as is the cost of living going up, but perspective is important.

baxuz 4y ago
You can't fix systemic issues with individual choices. That requires regulation and a system that can carry out those regulations.
- phphphphp 4y ago
  Finish the thought, where do regulations come from?
  - baxuz 4y ago
    From government intervention.
rdm_blackhole 4y ago
You are misinterpreting what I said but I am not going to repeat myself to reiterate my views which I have expressed pretty clearly in my previous response to you. You completely forgot to address all my rebuttals to your arguments so I will chose to believe that you are arguing in bad faith at this point. For the sake of closure let me respond to you and then we can leave it at that: >> If you’re unwilling to make any sacrifice for the greater good then you’re asking the world to serve perfection to you without any effort on your part. this is a complete misinterpretation of my argument. I am willing to make sacrifices that have an impact. Taking a shorter shower or recycling a plastic bottle will not change a thing until the biggest polluters are actually doing their part. I am not sure how else I can explain it. It stands to reason that it makes more sense to tackle the biggest issues first, that is the shipping industry, the petroleum industry, the airlines and so on before asking people to sacrifice some of their little comforts like having a long shower or not drinking from plastic cups. >> You can’t get a cheap second hand electric car that you can charge for free at your home? That’s unfortunate, but there are other options beyond “well whatever I’ll just get a petrol car then”. Please do tell what those options are? And while you are at it why don't you tell that to someone living on minimum wage on the country side where there is no public transport. And don't tell me that they should just move to a city when the cost of housing as increased by 30% within the last 2 years. Once again, what's your proposal? Should they just bike or walk for 20km maybe twice a day? You do realize that not everyone can afford a new or second hand electric car right? >> Your government represents you, your government is not a nebulous self-sufficient entity that exists independent of you and your fellow country people. If your government isn’t doing enough, it’s up to you and the people around you to be a force for good, to do everything in your power to create change. Even if sometimes it feels fruitless, do it. Be the best you can be. So I should spend my days shouting into the void and hoping that someone somewhere listens to me and my fellow citizens? Well, guess what? I have been there and done that. Unfortunately some of us don't have the luxury or the time to go on a crusade. I have many things going on in my life and time spent away from my family is not a luxury I can afford. >> Also, the idea that you and I are shouldering the cost of the energy transition is completely ignorant to the realities of the world. I definitely am shouldering the cost through higher taxes on petroleum products. Higher taxes on energy and higher cost of food and energy in general. >> The catastrophic disasters that we, the developed world, have created, are an order of magnitude worse in the global south than they will ever be for us. I never said that the developing countries will not have to bear the consequences of our actions. In fact I hope they realize that the developed countries have screwed them. >> People are dying every day because of our choice to use fossil fuels, we are destroying the planet, your increased cost of living or exposure to the heat doesn’t come close to the suffering of people who are paying the price for our choices. I agree with you. But where I disagree is that we have bigger fish to fry than worry if Joe blow's shower was 5 minutes long or 3 minutes. It's like you are coming back from work or from running an errand and discover that your house is on fire. You don't stop by the mail box to check if your magazine has arrived, no, you run and grab a bucket or a hose and you try to extinguish the flames by yourself before the firefighters arrive. My problem is that the current governments are too concerned about my meat consumption or the model of my car or the amount of plastic bottles I recycle while carefully avoiding rocking the boat with the big corporations that are responsible for orders of magnitude more pollution than than I could ever produce in 100 lifetimes. That's my problem. If you choose to interpret this as me not caring then feel free to do so but you will have misunderstood my argument. >> Yes, this heatwave in Europe is painful, as is the cost of living going up, but perspective is important. Perspective is a luxury that few can afford. What good is perspective when you can't afford your rent or to heat your house in winter or when you can't feed your kids because the price of food has climbed 20% during the last 12 months? Forgive me for saying so but from your responses you talk like someone who has a comfortable lifestyle. If that is the case then good for you but just so you know your point of view on these issues seems highly skewed and not representative of the majority of the population that is currently struggling to keep their heads above water in light of the rising cost of living. On that note I wish you a good day.

baxuz 4y ago

You can't fix systemic issues with individual choices. That requires regulation and a system that can carry out those regulations.

phphphphp 4y ago
Finish the thought, where do regulations come from?
- baxuz 4y ago
  From government intervention.

rdm_blackhole 4y ago

You are misinterpreting what I said but I am not going to repeat myself to reiterate my views which I have expressed pretty clearly in my previous response to you. You completely forgot to address all my rebuttals to your arguments so I will chose to believe that you are arguing in bad faith at this point. For the sake of closure let me respond to you and then we can leave it at that: >> If you’re unwilling to make any sacrifice for the greater good then you’re asking the world to serve perfection to you without any effort on your part. this is a complete misinterpretation of my argument. I am willing to make sacrifices that have an impact. Taking a shorter shower or recycling a plastic bottle will not change a thing until the biggest polluters are actually doing their part. I am not sure how else I can explain it. It stands to reason that it makes more sense to tackle the biggest issues first, that is the shipping industry, the petroleum industry, the airlines and so on before asking people to sacrifice some of their little comforts like having a long shower or not drinking from plastic cups. >> You can’t get a cheap second hand electric car that you can charge for free at your home? That’s unfortunate, but there are other options beyond “well whatever I’ll just get a petrol car then”. Please do tell what those options are? And while you are at it why don't you tell that to someone living on minimum wage on the country side where there is no public transport. And don't tell me that they should just move to a city when the cost of housing as increased by 30% within the last 2 years. Once again, what's your proposal? Should they just bike or walk for 20km maybe twice a day? You do realize that not everyone can afford a new or second hand electric car right? >> Your government represents you, your government is not a nebulous self-sufficient entity that exists independent of you and your fellow country people. If your government isn’t doing enough, it’s up to you and the people around you to be a force for good, to do everything in your power to create change. Even if sometimes it feels fruitless, do it. Be the best you can be. So I should spend my days shouting into the void and hoping that someone somewhere listens to me and my fellow citizens? Well, guess what? I have been there and done that. Unfortunately some of us don't have the luxury or the time to go on a crusade. I have many things going on in my life and time spent away from my family is not a luxury I can afford. >> Also, the idea that you and I are shouldering the cost of the energy transition is completely ignorant to the realities of the world. I definitely am shouldering the cost through higher taxes on petroleum products. Higher taxes on energy and higher cost of food and energy in general. >> The catastrophic disasters that we, the developed world, have created, are an order of magnitude worse in the global south than they will ever be for us. I never said that the developing countries will not have to bear the consequences of our actions. In fact I hope they realize that the developed countries have screwed them. >> People are dying every day because of our choice to use fossil fuels, we are destroying the planet, your increased cost of living or exposure to the heat doesn’t come close to the suffering of people who are paying the price for our choices. I agree with you. But where I disagree is that we have bigger fish to fry than worry if Joe blow's shower was 5 minutes long or 3 minutes. It's like you are coming back from work or from running an errand and discover that your house is on fire. You don't stop by the mail box to check if your magazine has arrived, no, you run and grab a bucket or a hose and you try to extinguish the flames by yourself before the firefighters arrive. My problem is that the current governments are too concerned about my meat consumption or the model of my car or the amount of plastic bottles I recycle while carefully avoiding rocking the boat with the big corporations that are responsible for orders of magnitude more pollution than than I could ever produce in 100 lifetimes. That's my problem. If you choose to interpret this as me not caring then feel free to do so but you will have misunderstood my argument. >> Yes, this heatwave in Europe is painful, as is the cost of living going up, but perspective is important. Perspective is a luxury that few can afford. What good is perspective when you can't afford your rent or to heat your house in winter or when you can't feed your kids because the price of food has climbed 20% during the last 12 months? Forgive me for saying so but from your responses you talk like someone who has a comfortable lifestyle. If that is the case then good for you but just so you know your point of view on these issues seems highly skewed and not representative of the majority of the population that is currently struggling to keep their heads above water in light of the rising cost of living. On that note I wish you a good day.