3 ms·

>A software engineer doesn't know how long a task normally takes, as software pretty much never gets written twice the same way Unless you are making cookie-cu

by bumby 4y ago

>A software engineer doesn't know how long a task normally takes, as software pretty much never gets written twice the same way Unless you are making cookie-cutter buildings with the exact same design, the same can be said about construction. It’s interesting talking to other engineering domains when they don’t understand why it takes so long because “it’s just software” and assumes cutting and pasting from similar problems is all that is necessary. And here we are taking the same stance.

bluGill 4y ago
Most buildings are close enough to cookie cutter. I used to work for a builder, he could look at a brand new house print and estimate how much it would cost to build the house within a thousand dollars. You can count the walls, stairs, and a few other features and know what it will cost because those are cookie cutter. Sure the arrangement is different, but that doesn't actually cost anything. So long it is a "stick framed single family house" it is easy to estimate because they are all cookie cutter. Change any of that and you need someone else to estimate as there are different rules for each change. Most of the changes you can make have someone who has experience and can accurately estimate it. Or in programming terms, I can estimate how long "hello world" well take me to write. My estimate won't change if you tell me to write in it in German, so long as you give me the German translation of hello world. You can substitute any of the thousands of other languages in the world, it won't change the estimate. Of course if you tell me instead of a programming language I know I need to write it in one that I don't that will change the estimate.
- bumby 4y ago
  This is true, but mainly because you’ve constrained both problems to a well-defined domain. Stick-built single family residential construction is nothing like building a hospital or bridge any more than “hello world” is like a business CRUD app or avionics software.
  - robertlagrant 4y ago
    Almost all construction projects are houses, whereas no software projects are hello world.
    - bumby 4y ago
      Ok, then replace “hello world” with a website. Would you hire someone to write avionics software because they only have web experience? They’re plenty of people who group them together because they’re both “just software” but it really just shows their ignorance rather than their understanding of the domain
      - robertlagrant 4y ago
        That doesn't matter to this. The point is that neither task is particularly estimable due to the amount of discovery required, rather than due to the difficulty of the task.
        bumby 4y ago
        That's a better way of putting my point, thank you. I wasn't necessarily meaning to compare the difficulty of the tasks, but rather the dissimilarity of them which leads to additional discovery effort. But on retrospect, I can see why it would come across as a comparison of difficulty.

by bumby 4y ago

bluGill 4y ago

Most buildings are close enough to cookie cutter. I used to work for a builder, he could look at a brand new house print and estimate how much it would cost to build the house within a thousand dollars. You can count the walls, stairs, and a few other features and know what it will cost because those are cookie cutter. Sure the arrangement is different, but that doesn't actually cost anything. So long it is a "stick framed single family house" it is easy to estimate because they are all cookie cutter. Change any of that and you need someone else to estimate as there are different rules for each change. Most of the changes you can make have someone who has experience and can accurately estimate it. Or in programming terms, I can estimate how long "hello world" well take me to write. My estimate won't change if you tell me to write in it in German, so long as you give me the German translation of hello world. You can substitute any of the thousands of other languages in the world, it won't change the estimate. Of course if you tell me instead of a programming language I know I need to write it in one that I don't that will change the estimate.

bumby 4y ago
This is true, but mainly because you’ve constrained both problems to a well-defined domain. Stick-built single family residential construction is nothing like building a hospital or bridge any more than “hello world” is like a business CRUD app or avionics software.
- robertlagrant 4y ago
  Almost all construction projects are houses, whereas no software projects are hello world.
  - bumby 4y ago
    Ok, then replace “hello world” with a website. Would you hire someone to write avionics software because they only have web experience? They’re plenty of people who group them together because they’re both “just software” but it really just shows their ignorance rather than their understanding of the domain
    - robertlagrant 4y ago
      That doesn't matter to this. The point is that neither task is particularly estimable due to the amount of discovery required, rather than due to the difficulty of the task.
      - bumby 4y ago
        That's a better way of putting my point, thank you. I wasn't necessarily meaning to compare the difficulty of the tasks, but rather the dissimilarity of them which leads to additional discovery effort. But on retrospect, I can see why it would come across as a comparison of difficulty.