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> Russia is the one who decided to invade Ukraine, Russia is the one who decides to bomb children, Russia is the one who decides to commit genocide against the

> Russia is the one who decided to invade Ukraine, Russia is the one who decides to bomb children, Russia is the one who decides to commit genocide against the Ukrainians, Russia is solely responsible for this war. To hear Russia tell it, Ukraine has bombed a lot of children in the last 8 years and was committing genocide in East Ukraine. Ukraine also got couped. Note: I personally have no ability to determine the truth of the Russian side beyond reading the wikipedia page and noting it plausible. I wonder if you have some extra information on things like how many civilian causalties occurred in the Donbas before 2022 or what the real support for Crimea joining Russia was?

_kbh_ 4y ago
> To hear Russia tell it, Ukraine has bombed a lot of children in the last 8 years and was committing genocide in East Ukraine. Russia likes to tell a lot of lies and half truths to muddy the waters of everything I wouldn't trust what they they also generally don't provide any solid evidence of any of there claims either, just take these examples. "Russian State Media Claims to Discover Militarized Ukrainian Witches". https://www.vice.com/en/article/dypmpk/russian-state-media-claims-to-discover-militarized-ukrainian-witches https://www.vice.com/en/article/dypmpk/russian-state-media-c... "Russian lawmakers baselessly claim their army is up against biologically modified Ukrainian super soldiers" https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-lawmakers-tout-baseless-claims-ukrainian-super-soldiers-2022-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-lawmakers-tout-basel... "U.S. Ramps Up Ukraine Warnings as Russia Denies Invasion Plans" https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-17/russia-tells-u-s-no-ukraine-invasion-planned-tass-says https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-17/russia-te... Russian state media just cannot be trusted to tell the truth, I wouldn't believe a single word they say. > Note: I personally have no ability to determine the truth of the Russian side beyond reading the wikipedia page and noting it plausible. This would be a mistake, the "firehose of falsehood" is a well known Russian tactic, they lie constantly just to muddy the water. All you need to do is look at MH70 (the civilian airliner that Russian troops pretending to be separatists shot down) to see it in action, before it was publicly revealed to be a airliner they where posing with pictures of the wreckage and bragging about downing a Ukrainian military plane then when it was revealed what happened a whole bunch of Russian pushed conspiracy theories started popping up regarding it. > I wonder if you have some extra information on things like how many civilian causalties occurred in the Donbas before 2022. Because of the way that Russia lies and muddies the water, the real numbers will never be known just look at how little casualties they are claiming on their side for the current war. > or what the real support for Crimea joining Russia was? Again because of the tactics the Russians use this will never be actually known. But maybe once Ukraine retakes Crimea we may know more.
freeflight 4y ago
> Ukraine also got couped. Except that's not how Russia tells it, that's what actually happened. On February 21 then acting Ukrainian president Yanukovych signed a transition deal with the Ukrainian opposition, brokered by the EU and Russia [0]. That should have been the end of most of it, but it wasn't, later that day Yatsenyuk, aka "Yats our guy" from the Nuland tape, and Tyahnybok, who both agreed and signed to the deal, went on stage on Euromaidan and then declared how "That's not enough" riling up the protesters to demand more. Klitschko, who was constantly trying to keep the peace [1], and was Merkel's aka the EU's choice [2] was completely left out of that. More context on that in the leaked Nuland call, where she rates Klitschko's governmental experience not high enough for such a position, thus their go ahead with "Yats is our guy" and "Fuck the EU". That situation escalated then so much, that by the early morning of February 22 the leader of Right Sector announced how they had taken over, and secured, the parliament and several other local government buildings [3]. It's exactly that part the current "Russia lies" narrative always leaves out, by claiming Yanukovych just randomly fled from a completely peaceful protest. After Yanukovych fled, Yatsenyuk announced their new post-coup government to rather frosty reception on Euromaidan [4]. As a German I was actively following the situation back then, that's why I still have most of these sources. But since then so much information was straight up "deleted" from the web. It used to be extremely easy to find violent footage from Euromaidan on Twitter and YouTube, not anymore, all deleted as "Russian propaganda" so the "peaceful revolution, there was never a civil war" narrative can keep getting pushed without too much of an factual opposition. Another, rather concrete, example is Yatsenyuk's "Open Ukraine Foundation", that went online shortly after the coup, it's partners page had all the usual US regime change actors bluntly spelled out [5]. First the foundation changed from his name, to his wives, and ultimately that partners page vanished completely, too blatantly incriminating. [0] https://www.politico.eu/article/yanukovych-signs-transition-deal-with-ukraine-opposition/ https://www.politico.eu/article/yanukovych-signs-transition-... [1] https://youtu.be/5bPKFto1AFY https://youtu.be/5bPKFto1AFY [2] https://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/ukraine-merkel-will-klitschko-zum-praesidenten-aufbauen-a-937853.html https://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/ukraine-merkel-will-k... [3] https://www.unian.net/politics/888104-verhovnaya-rada-administratsiya-prezidenta-kabmin-i-mvd-pereshli-pod-kontrol-maydana.html https://www.unian.net/politics/888104-verhovnaya-rada-admini... [4] https://youtu.be/wegtWNIFX1Y https://youtu.be/wegtWNIFX1Y [5] https://web.archive.org/web/20140302111543/http://openukraine.org/en/about/partners https://web.archive.org/web/20140302111543/http://openukrain...

_kbh_ 4y ago

> To hear Russia tell it, Ukraine has bombed a lot of children in the last 8 years and was committing genocide in East Ukraine. Russia likes to tell a lot of lies and half truths to muddy the waters of everything I wouldn't trust what they they also generally don't provide any solid evidence of any of there claims either, just take these examples. "Russian State Media Claims to Discover Militarized Ukrainian Witches". https://www.vice.com/en/article/dypmpk/russian-state-media-claims-to-discover-militarized-ukrainian-witches https://www.vice.com/en/article/dypmpk/russian-state-media-c... "Russian lawmakers baselessly claim their army is up against biologically modified Ukrainian super soldiers" https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-lawmakers-tout-baseless-claims-ukrainian-super-soldiers-2022-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-lawmakers-tout-basel... "U.S. Ramps Up Ukraine Warnings as Russia Denies Invasion Plans" https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-17/russia-tells-u-s-no-ukraine-invasion-planned-tass-says https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-17/russia-te... Russian state media just cannot be trusted to tell the truth, I wouldn't believe a single word they say. > Note: I personally have no ability to determine the truth of the Russian side beyond reading the wikipedia page and noting it plausible. This would be a mistake, the "firehose of falsehood" is a well known Russian tactic, they lie constantly just to muddy the water. All you need to do is look at MH70 (the civilian airliner that Russian troops pretending to be separatists shot down) to see it in action, before it was publicly revealed to be a airliner they where posing with pictures of the wreckage and bragging about downing a Ukrainian military plane then when it was revealed what happened a whole bunch of Russian pushed conspiracy theories started popping up regarding it. > I wonder if you have some extra information on things like how many civilian causalties occurred in the Donbas before 2022. Because of the way that Russia lies and muddies the water, the real numbers will never be known just look at how little casualties they are claiming on their side for the current war. > or what the real support for Crimea joining Russia was? Again because of the tactics the Russians use this will never be actually known. But maybe once Ukraine retakes Crimea we may know more.

freeflight 4y ago

> Ukraine also got couped. Except that's not how Russia tells it, that's what actually happened. On February 21 then acting Ukrainian president Yanukovych signed a transition deal with the Ukrainian opposition, brokered by the EU and Russia [0]. That should have been the end of most of it, but it wasn't, later that day Yatsenyuk, aka "Yats our guy" from the Nuland tape, and Tyahnybok, who both agreed and signed to the deal, went on stage on Euromaidan and then declared how "That's not enough" riling up the protesters to demand more. Klitschko, who was constantly trying to keep the peace [1], and was Merkel's aka the EU's choice [2] was completely left out of that. More context on that in the leaked Nuland call, where she rates Klitschko's governmental experience not high enough for such a position, thus their go ahead with "Yats is our guy" and "Fuck the EU". That situation escalated then so much, that by the early morning of February 22 the leader of Right Sector announced how they had taken over, and secured, the parliament and several other local government buildings [3]. It's exactly that part the current "Russia lies" narrative always leaves out, by claiming Yanukovych just randomly fled from a completely peaceful protest. After Yanukovych fled, Yatsenyuk announced their new post-coup government to rather frosty reception on Euromaidan [4]. As a German I was actively following the situation back then, that's why I still have most of these sources. But since then so much information was straight up "deleted" from the web. It used to be extremely easy to find violent footage from Euromaidan on Twitter and YouTube, not anymore, all deleted as "Russian propaganda" so the "peaceful revolution, there was never a civil war" narrative can keep getting pushed without too much of an factual opposition. Another, rather concrete, example is Yatsenyuk's "Open Ukraine Foundation", that went online shortly after the coup, it's partners page had all the usual US regime change actors bluntly spelled out [5]. First the foundation changed from his name, to his wives, and ultimately that partners page vanished completely, too blatantly incriminating. [0] https://www.politico.eu/article/yanukovych-signs-transition-deal-with-ukraine-opposition/ https://www.politico.eu/article/yanukovych-signs-transition-... [1] https://youtu.be/5bPKFto1AFY https://youtu.be/5bPKFto1AFY [2] https://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/ukraine-merkel-will-klitschko-zum-praesidenten-aufbauen-a-937853.html https://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/ukraine-merkel-will-k... [3] https://www.unian.net/politics/888104-verhovnaya-rada-administratsiya-prezidenta-kabmin-i-mvd-pereshli-pod-kontrol-maydana.html https://www.unian.net/politics/888104-verhovnaya-rada-admini... [4] https://youtu.be/wegtWNIFX1Y https://youtu.be/wegtWNIFX1Y [5] https://web.archive.org/web/20140302111543/http://openukraine.org/en/about/partners https://web.archive.org/web/20140302111543/http://openukrain...