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You answered your own question. Non-Linux users already have plenty of options e.g. M2 Air. If I need a high-performance laptop with Linux---and especially if

You answered your own question. Non-Linux users already have plenty of options e.g. M2 Air. If I need a high-performance laptop with Linux---and especially if extended distribution support is important---I'd be wiser to go with the first one certified against the latest LTS rather than trying to convince a "built for Windows" laptop to work: one expected to provide full ACPI access/control, a working fingerprint reader, S/PDIF, a working graphics stack, performance optimizations. As one example: If you're a university robotics program, it makes sense to get 20 of these at the B2B price tier for your incoming students and they'll >>just work<< for the entire duration of someone's graduate degree and beyond. (Unless something changed recently, Northwestern does this.) As far as function keys, I also hate capacitive buttons ever since having a touch bar on a work computer. Using vim, you're constantly pressing the glass... nothing corner. For laptops, it is sensible to default the top row to various controls (brightness, media keys, airplane mode, etc.) rather than F1, F2, etc. But once you have a dedicated Fn key, why not make F1 = Fn + 1, F2 = Fn + 2, etc.? It would take a week of getting used to but makes the most sense---especially if your top row of "real buttons" is now the number keys.

bitwize 4y ago
> You answered your own question. Non-Linux users already have plenty of options e.g. M2 Air. The Apple Silicon hardware is so good, it should make Linux users rethink being Linux users. At least until Asahi Linux has decent hardware support, but even then Linux just doesn't cut it in terms of UI.
- goosedragons 4y ago
  If you already use and like Linux, MacOS doesn't cut it in terms of UI. ;) Minor performance and power efficiency gains aren't worth putting up with Apple's software and hardware limitations IMO. I like having full control of the UI, I like having the ability to swap out the SSD and not need to pay $200 for 512GB at time of purchase. I like being able to use 2 external monitors. And to have screen size options bigger than 13" that cost less than $2000
- darthrupert 4y ago
  Linux's UI (if you can refer to such a singular thing) is actually the number one reason that makes it more difficult to move to Macs. Sway/i3 is vastly superior to MacOS UI in almost every way. edit for me, obviously, not necessarily for everyone
- Epa095 4y ago
  (this is an attempt at Cunningham's Law, if anyone had an actual solution I would love to hear it). OSX window management is...horrendous. I want to be able to have two monitors and simply (with a keypress) move a window to either screen, or to use half of a given screen. Both windows and Linux WMs get this right. In OSX you have (or had last time I tried) two "fullscreen" buttons. One blue button, which maybe made it full screen, but most often just filled the height. Cause it decided that you wanted to see 3cm of the desktop background.... And then some apps, but not all, had a little arrow on the right which made it super-fullscreen! But then it made a virtual desktop, and screw whatever you had on the other screen. And using anything but the mouse? Lol forget it. I see I sound like I want a flamewar. I don't. I want to buy the M2, but first be told that apple has fixed its shitty UX since last time I tried:-P
  - easton 4y ago
    There’s a utility called Rectangle that does this: https://rectangleapp.com/ https://rectangleapp.com/ It works very well, a native version would probably be better but most of the time I don’t notice it’s running, just press the keyboard shortcuts and move on. There’s also tiling WMs that go deeper, but I haven’t needed them.
justsomehnguy 4y ago
> it is sensible to default the top row to various controls No, it's not. I'm hitting F4, F5, F5, F10 way, way more often than I change the brightness (ones in a while), volume (more often but NOT EVERY GODDAMN MINUTE) or ExternalOutput (nowadays - never).
- PennRobotics 4y ago
  I understand the tradeoff is all I mean. In fact, probably the biggest win is the BIOS setting that lets you choose whether you want function keys or media keys, since each user chooses their preference. Your use case is definitely different than mine. I constantly want to adjust volume or mute when someone walks in or adjust brightness if I'm in the dark. The only time I really need function keys are in OpenSCAD and maybe once or twice a day in other programs. If I'm doing a lot of batch edits in vim, I'll nnoremap to the function keys if I have a full keyboard. For closing a window, it's almost always Ctrl+W or Ctrl+Shift+W, for refresh it's Ctrl+R, etc.
  - justsomehnguy 4y ago
    That's great, but if Ctrl+R is for refresh, what combo you would use for 'Rename'? To get to the address bar? To view a file in `mc`? Dev tools in browser? And the thing is, this is a muscle memory from almost the three decades of usage[0]. I don't have a problem hitting Fn+F1/F2/F3 for Mute/Vol-/Vol+ but I would have a problem if hitting F5 would turn off my WiFi. And by the way - I have big hands but even I struggle to hit Fn+F12/whatever key on the top right. Therefore I bought a laptop with a second Fn key. [0] Edit: and most of them are in CUA or de-facto standard ones. I still hit Ctrl+Ins/Shift+Ins sometimes. Not on the modern laptop keyboards, of course...

bitwize 4y ago

> You answered your own question. Non-Linux users already have plenty of options e.g. M2 Air. The Apple Silicon hardware is so good, it should make Linux users rethink being Linux users. At least until Asahi Linux has decent hardware support, but even then Linux just doesn't cut it in terms of UI.

goosedragons 4y ago
If you already use and like Linux, MacOS doesn't cut it in terms of UI. ;) Minor performance and power efficiency gains aren't worth putting up with Apple's software and hardware limitations IMO. I like having full control of the UI, I like having the ability to swap out the SSD and not need to pay $200 for 512GB at time of purchase. I like being able to use 2 external monitors. And to have screen size options bigger than 13" that cost less than $2000
darthrupert 4y ago
Linux's UI (if you can refer to such a singular thing) is actually the number one reason that makes it more difficult to move to Macs. Sway/i3 is vastly superior to MacOS UI in almost every way. edit for me, obviously, not necessarily for everyone
Epa095 4y ago
(this is an attempt at Cunningham's Law, if anyone had an actual solution I would love to hear it). OSX window management is...horrendous. I want to be able to have two monitors and simply (with a keypress) move a window to either screen, or to use half of a given screen. Both windows and Linux WMs get this right. In OSX you have (or had last time I tried) two "fullscreen" buttons. One blue button, which maybe made it full screen, but most often just filled the height. Cause it decided that you wanted to see 3cm of the desktop background.... And then some apps, but not all, had a little arrow on the right which made it super-fullscreen! But then it made a virtual desktop, and screw whatever you had on the other screen. And using anything but the mouse? Lol forget it. I see I sound like I want a flamewar. I don't. I want to buy the M2, but first be told that apple has fixed its shitty UX since last time I tried:-P
- easton 4y ago
  There’s a utility called Rectangle that does this: https://rectangleapp.com/ https://rectangleapp.com/ It works very well, a native version would probably be better but most of the time I don’t notice it’s running, just press the keyboard shortcuts and move on. There’s also tiling WMs that go deeper, but I haven’t needed them.

justsomehnguy 4y ago

> it is sensible to default the top row to various controls No, it's not. I'm hitting F4, F5, F5, F10 way, way more often than I change the brightness (ones in a while), volume (more often but NOT EVERY GODDAMN MINUTE) or ExternalOutput (nowadays - never).

PennRobotics 4y ago
I understand the tradeoff is all I mean. In fact, probably the biggest win is the BIOS setting that lets you choose whether you want function keys or media keys, since each user chooses their preference. Your use case is definitely different than mine. I constantly want to adjust volume or mute when someone walks in or adjust brightness if I'm in the dark. The only time I really need function keys are in OpenSCAD and maybe once or twice a day in other programs. If I'm doing a lot of batch edits in vim, I'll nnoremap to the function keys if I have a full keyboard. For closing a window, it's almost always Ctrl+W or Ctrl+Shift+W, for refresh it's Ctrl+R, etc.
- justsomehnguy 4y ago
  That's great, but if Ctrl+R is for refresh, what combo you would use for 'Rename'? To get to the address bar? To view a file in `mc`? Dev tools in browser? And the thing is, this is a muscle memory from almost the three decades of usage[0]. I don't have a problem hitting Fn+F1/F2/F3 for Mute/Vol-/Vol+ but I would have a problem if hitting F5 would turn off my WiFi. And by the way - I have big hands but even I struggle to hit Fn+F12/whatever key on the top right. Therefore I bought a laptop with a second Fn key. [0] Edit: and most of them are in CUA or de-facto standard ones. I still hit Ctrl+Ins/Shift+Ins sometimes. Not on the modern laptop keyboards, of course...