6 ms·

Blizzard to get $6 million from maker of WoW bot

17 points by andreyf 18y ago

tbeseda 18y ago
While I hate the farmers and other low-lifes using the app, I can't agree with the decision.
- axod 18y ago
  By "the app" do you mean WoW? or the bot? ;)
- ashleyw 18y ago
  Dont call me a low life, I got from 66-70 with this very bot. =P Why'd I do it? Got bored watching friends raiding most nights when I could only play a few hours a week, I was estimating a few months for the last few levels — but using the bot, got to 70 within a week, and I now raid a few times a week, and having fun. I'm happy, didn't hurt the game as gold farmers do, and I already knew how to play my class before hand (so I'm not a noob). Win! :) I can say I'm glad the bot is history, but there are a lot of people in my situation, and with an extra 10 levels being added soon (WotLK), its going to be even harder for people to catch up with their friends! But without this one bot which Blizzard could track, gold farmers are going to develop their own bots. Gold farming could get worse! (though Blizz have tried to stop this by giving users gold easily via daily quests — but its still easier to buy! ;)
  - maxniederhofer 18y ago
    just buy a char on ebay
ROFISH 18y ago
If people are willing to pay real money for virtual gold due to time issues, and the game isn't fun until you put 1000 hours into it, then it's a design flaw. People want instant gratification, not spending their time leveling up.
- josefresco 18y ago
  Leveling up is what it's all about actually. It's Blizzard's job to make that process fun along the way, so the goal doesn't become the only reward (which I'm afraid is the reality with WoW now). If not, it's a huge impediment to new users and casual gamers.
- nihilocrat 18y ago
  working for an MMO company, I've come to the conclusion that there are a significant number of people who enjoy the current MMO model. I compare it somewhat to crack cocaine (yeah, real creative, right?); you can complain all you want about how addictive it is and how it ruins peoples' lives, but while they're smoking it, they sure do feel good. Some people do it for the high, while some people do it to numb the pain and hardship of their real life. There are a large number of people who agree with you, including me, but the bottom line is that the MMO grinding model works for the objective of keeping subscribers. Some people get frustrated, some people just hate the mechanics, but you can manage to keep the several hundred thousand subscribers you need to be profitable. You can't please everyone, so why not just please a particular niche market? The only downside is that MMO gamers are very, very, very, very, very whiny and hard to please, you could blame this on the fact that most MMOs are cookie-cutter clones of each other and thus gamers can easily get in a fit when their class is nerfed and join your competitor's game, without having to worry about actually playing a different game. Some people just really /do/ want a 'second job' doing raids three or more times a week and dumping hundreds of hours of their life into a game.
  - greyman 18y ago
    Ok, thanks for explanation. Can I have one more question - why exactly do you disallow or don't like bots?
    - nihilocrat 18y ago
      It actually depends on which game you are talking about, but it's true that the majority of MMO makers are very anti-bot. Undoubtedly, Blizzard is not having an issue with botting itself, they are having an issue with a tool which can be used for gold farming (see: Bittorrent). The various forms of fraud that gold farming shops use to get accounts (such as credit card fraud) result in non-trivial amounts of chargebacks; I can't name figures, but MMO companies lose enough money from fraudulent players, namely farmers, that combating them justifies the hiring of full-time fraud specialists. Players, and probably moreso, game designers are also interested in combating farmers in order to maintain the 'purity' of their in-game economy. I guess what I'm basically saying is that gold farming is the real enemy in this battle. Players and designers could also be bothered that bots allow players to make progress in the game without actually having to put in the time to play, but this plays second fiddle to gold farming.
motoko 18y ago
The math of this story doesn't make sense to me: * World of Warcraft creator Blizzard looks set to get $6m (£3.36m) from the makers of a software 'bot' * sold more than 100,000 copies of the $25 (£14) program. So, estimated gross revenue is L1.4MM for the lifetime of the bot company, but Blizzard was awarded L3.33MM ---almost three times sales? I don't understand. Is this expected to ever be paid, or simply expected to crush the bot company?
- streety 18y ago
  I was thinking the same thing. The article does say at the end that there will be another court hearing in 2009 to decide whether he is personally responsible. I assume that is to cover the excess.
- noonespecial 18y ago
  Yes. In this case its terrorism, not extortion. I did a double take on this as well. I guess I'm just so used to the extortion angle that the terrorism caught me off guard.
nihilocrat 18y ago
Here's a link to a better version of the story: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081001-blizzard-awarded-6-million-in-damages-from-wow-bot-maker.html http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081001-blizzard-award... Most important part, in my opinion: "This is troubling and creates a chilling precedent. It basically says that the copy of the software created in your system's RAM is okay under the license, and when you break the EULA by using software like MMOGlider the license is revoked, and you are suddenly left playing an unlicensed copy of the game."
bigthboy 18y ago
Coming from the background I have, I've seen the hammer of Blizzard before. Working on some of the projects I've had I've came to have a deep running disrespect and disgust of Blizzard and its owner Vivendi. Blizzard has used its hammer numerous times on many people. Some small, some big... specifically calling to mind Blizzard vs. BNETD. What's unfortunate is that Blizzard is actually winning these arguments and its leaving us with precedence that EULA > The US Constitutions.... If anyone would take the time to read the EULA for World of Warcraft you'll find that some of the claims in it are completely outragous. More or less, if you do something that Blizzard doesn't like, you're liable to have to pay Blizzard for it. I'm the kind of person who likes to have fun and use my imagination when I play games. I'll agree that I think it can ruin the game experience when players exploit to benefit themselves, but suing them for it just isn't right. It is the fact that not only did I risk getting my account banned but doing things like WoWGlider and writing programs that gave you advantage could also risk major lawsuits that I left WoW in the first place with the ambition of designing my own game where I could have fun with the game world and not have to worry about getting sued. I'm proud to say I made it decently far (though never got close to completion). Personally, I view Blizzard as more ambitious than the RIAA at pursuing copyright infringements, and most of the infrignements Blizzard pursues aren't infringements at all. A lot of what Blizzard goes after are competitors who make money off Blizzard's product while not reproducing or redistributing their product. I just can't coprehend how Blizzard ever has justification to claim copyrights when a person or team, using their own knowledge and skills, writes their own programs from the ground up to alter the game's performance while not directly modifying any part of the game. In the terms of cheating, its justifiable to ban users breaking the policy, in terms of "3rd party servers" its justification to fix your own holes and make it harder to do. At this rate, Blizzard's next EULA will say you can't install or play any other video game on the machine that WoW is installed or you'll have to pay three months subscription on the spot.
- motoko 18y ago
  Blizzard is trying to preserve the experience of their product, not exploit people. It's not wrong to defend yourself, and the modern way to do that is by maintaining an active battalion of lawyers. The alternative is by physical force. I prefer the former.
henning 18y ago
Bots are used for two main purposes in WoW: farming and faster leveling. Farming is much more harmful to the game than auto-leveling. Too much farming would ruin the in-game economy and cripple an essential part of the game. Farmers also often use the sale of gold and items as a pretense to phish passwords, which they then use for in-game spamming. Blizzard should focus on fighting goldfarming and leave people who want to have a high-level character without spending weeks of their time on the game alone IMO.
maxniederhofer 18y ago
This isn't someone being sued for copyright infringement. It's someone being sued for participating in an limited open system in such a way that harms most others' participation in the system. The point is that the rules are what makes the game fun. This guy was ruining it for everybody and making money in the process. Happy to see his ass banned. MMOs aren't for everyone. Plenty games are designed for casual play. qq more - you have a real job and a real social life, unlike most MMO players.

17 points by andreyf 18y ago

tbeseda 18y ago

While I hate the farmers and other low-lifes using the app, I can't agree with the decision.

axod 18y ago
By "the app" do you mean WoW? or the bot? ;)
ashleyw 18y ago
Dont call me a low life, I got from 66-70 with this very bot. =P Why'd I do it? Got bored watching friends raiding most nights when I could only play a few hours a week, I was estimating a few months for the last few levels — but using the bot, got to 70 within a week, and I now raid a few times a week, and having fun. I'm happy, didn't hurt the game as gold farmers do, and I already knew how to play my class before hand (so I'm not a noob). Win! :) I can say I'm glad the bot is history, but there are a lot of people in my situation, and with an extra 10 levels being added soon (WotLK), its going to be even harder for people to catch up with their friends! But without this one bot which Blizzard could track, gold farmers are going to develop their own bots. Gold farming could get worse! (though Blizz have tried to stop this by giving users gold easily via daily quests — but its still easier to buy! ;)
- maxniederhofer 18y ago
  just buy a char on ebay

ROFISH 18y ago

If people are willing to pay real money for virtual gold due to time issues, and the game isn't fun until you put 1000 hours into it, then it's a design flaw. People want instant gratification, not spending their time leveling up.

josefresco 18y ago
Leveling up is what it's all about actually. It's Blizzard's job to make that process fun along the way, so the goal doesn't become the only reward (which I'm afraid is the reality with WoW now). If not, it's a huge impediment to new users and casual gamers.
nihilocrat 18y ago
working for an MMO company, I've come to the conclusion that there are a significant number of people who enjoy the current MMO model. I compare it somewhat to crack cocaine (yeah, real creative, right?); you can complain all you want about how addictive it is and how it ruins peoples' lives, but while they're smoking it, they sure do feel good. Some people do it for the high, while some people do it to numb the pain and hardship of their real life. There are a large number of people who agree with you, including me, but the bottom line is that the MMO grinding model works for the objective of keeping subscribers. Some people get frustrated, some people just hate the mechanics, but you can manage to keep the several hundred thousand subscribers you need to be profitable. You can't please everyone, so why not just please a particular niche market? The only downside is that MMO gamers are very, very, very, very, very whiny and hard to please, you could blame this on the fact that most MMOs are cookie-cutter clones of each other and thus gamers can easily get in a fit when their class is nerfed and join your competitor's game, without having to worry about actually playing a different game. Some people just really /do/ want a 'second job' doing raids three or more times a week and dumping hundreds of hours of their life into a game.
- greyman 18y ago
  Ok, thanks for explanation. Can I have one more question - why exactly do you disallow or don't like bots?
  - nihilocrat 18y ago
    It actually depends on which game you are talking about, but it's true that the majority of MMO makers are very anti-bot. Undoubtedly, Blizzard is not having an issue with botting itself, they are having an issue with a tool which can be used for gold farming (see: Bittorrent). The various forms of fraud that gold farming shops use to get accounts (such as credit card fraud) result in non-trivial amounts of chargebacks; I can't name figures, but MMO companies lose enough money from fraudulent players, namely farmers, that combating them justifies the hiring of full-time fraud specialists. Players, and probably moreso, game designers are also interested in combating farmers in order to maintain the 'purity' of their in-game economy. I guess what I'm basically saying is that gold farming is the real enemy in this battle. Players and designers could also be bothered that bots allow players to make progress in the game without actually having to put in the time to play, but this plays second fiddle to gold farming.

motoko 18y ago

The math of this story doesn't make sense to me: * World of Warcraft creator Blizzard looks set to get $6m (£3.36m) from the makers of a software 'bot' * sold more than 100,000 copies of the $25 (£14) program. So, estimated gross revenue is L1.4MM for the lifetime of the bot company, but Blizzard was awarded L3.33MM ---almost three times sales? I don't understand. Is this expected to ever be paid, or simply expected to crush the bot company?

streety 18y ago
I was thinking the same thing. The article does say at the end that there will be another court hearing in 2009 to decide whether he is personally responsible. I assume that is to cover the excess.
noonespecial 18y ago
Yes. In this case its terrorism, not extortion. I did a double take on this as well. I guess I'm just so used to the extortion angle that the terrorism caught me off guard.

nihilocrat 18y ago

Here's a link to a better version of the story: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081001-blizzard-awarded-6-million-in-damages-from-wow-bot-maker.html http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081001-blizzard-award... Most important part, in my opinion: "This is troubling and creates a chilling precedent. It basically says that the copy of the software created in your system's RAM is okay under the license, and when you break the EULA by using software like MMOGlider the license is revoked, and you are suddenly left playing an unlicensed copy of the game."

bigthboy 18y ago

Coming from the background I have, I've seen the hammer of Blizzard before. Working on some of the projects I've had I've came to have a deep running disrespect and disgust of Blizzard and its owner Vivendi. Blizzard has used its hammer numerous times on many people. Some small, some big... specifically calling to mind Blizzard vs. BNETD. What's unfortunate is that Blizzard is actually winning these arguments and its leaving us with precedence that EULA > The US Constitutions.... If anyone would take the time to read the EULA for World of Warcraft you'll find that some of the claims in it are completely outragous. More or less, if you do something that Blizzard doesn't like, you're liable to have to pay Blizzard for it. I'm the kind of person who likes to have fun and use my imagination when I play games. I'll agree that I think it can ruin the game experience when players exploit to benefit themselves, but suing them for it just isn't right. It is the fact that not only did I risk getting my account banned but doing things like WoWGlider and writing programs that gave you advantage could also risk major lawsuits that I left WoW in the first place with the ambition of designing my own game where I could have fun with the game world and not have to worry about getting sued. I'm proud to say I made it decently far (though never got close to completion). Personally, I view Blizzard as more ambitious than the RIAA at pursuing copyright infringements, and most of the infrignements Blizzard pursues aren't infringements at all. A lot of what Blizzard goes after are competitors who make money off Blizzard's product while not reproducing or redistributing their product. I just can't coprehend how Blizzard ever has justification to claim copyrights when a person or team, using their own knowledge and skills, writes their own programs from the ground up to alter the game's performance while not directly modifying any part of the game. In the terms of cheating, its justifiable to ban users breaking the policy, in terms of "3rd party servers" its justification to fix your own holes and make it harder to do. At this rate, Blizzard's next EULA will say you can't install or play any other video game on the machine that WoW is installed or you'll have to pay three months subscription on the spot.

motoko 18y ago
Blizzard is trying to preserve the experience of their product, not exploit people. It's not wrong to defend yourself, and the modern way to do that is by maintaining an active battalion of lawyers. The alternative is by physical force. I prefer the former.

henning 18y ago

Bots are used for two main purposes in WoW: farming and faster leveling. Farming is much more harmful to the game than auto-leveling. Too much farming would ruin the in-game economy and cripple an essential part of the game. Farmers also often use the sale of gold and items as a pretense to phish passwords, which they then use for in-game spamming. Blizzard should focus on fighting goldfarming and leave people who want to have a high-level character without spending weeks of their time on the game alone IMO.

maxniederhofer 18y ago

This isn't someone being sued for copyright infringement. It's someone being sued for participating in an limited open system in such a way that harms most others' participation in the system. The point is that the rules are what makes the game fun. This guy was ruining it for everybody and making money in the process. Happy to see his ass banned. MMOs aren't for everyone. Plenty games are designed for casual play. qq more - you have a real job and a real social life, unlike most MMO players.