5 ms·

Their population never boomed like it did in the US post WW2, possibly because of the massive loss of lives in the war. I feel like all that development would b

by pm90 4y ago

Their population never boomed like it did in the US post WW2, possibly because of the massive loss of lives in the war. I feel like all that development would be pretty useless if there were no people to actually do anything.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
vlovich123 4y ago
That + killing/imprisoning a lot of your own population + creating an economic climate where it was hard to sustain your family + creating a political climate favoring emigration?
- vkazanov 4y ago
  Huh? The population was booming in the post-war USSR as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Soviet_Uni... Compare with the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Sta... And population growth in the pre-WW1 Russian Empire was even higher, despite having regular food shortage and hunger period. In general, pre-industrial agrarian societies tend to have much higher birth rates than industrial and post-industrial ones. For some strange reason the US nowadays is comparable in the percentage of prisoners in USSR in worst Gulag years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_incarceration_rate_with_other_countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_in... I don't have an explanation here, TBH. The US is a rich and socially advanced country. In comparison to Europe this feels very wrong.
  - pell 4y ago
    >For some strange reason the US nowadays is comparable in the percentage of prisoners in USSR in worst Gulag years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_in... I don't have an explanation here, TBH. The US is a rich and socially advanced country. In comparison to Europe this feels very wrong. The US justice system is very broken. No matter where one stands politically (e.g. be more lenient or be tougher on crime), the current system is suffering from bureaucracy, ineffectiveness, ineptitude and slowness. It's caught in an endless feedback loop.
- watwut 4y ago
  To add to what other person responded, birth rates fell down after communism fell. They were higher during USSR times then now. Not just in Russia, but everywhere in post communist world.
- pranavjoneja 4y ago
  not totally clear if this is the point you’re trying to make, but the US today fits that description exactly > killing/imprisoning a lot of your own population the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world > creating an economic climate where it was hard to sustain your family the cost of housing has far outgrown the median household income and in many places you need 2+ income earners to sustain a household meaning nobody has time to raise children
kgeist 4y ago
>Their population never boomed like it did in the US post WW2, possibly because of the massive loss of lives in the war Checked the censuses: USSR: 170,467,186 (1939) 208,826,650 (1959) USA: 132,164,569 (1940) 179,323,175 (1960) USSR: +38 mln USA: +47 mln I'd say it's pretty comparable, if you also consider that 26 mln Soviets were killed in WW2
- idlehand 4y ago
  26 million, mostly in prime working and childbearing age - so a larger effect on future population size than the number itself implies.
  - watwut 4y ago
    > mostly in prime working and childbearing age You have seen that in stats or just assume? Because civilian causalities in WWII outnumber military ones. Old people, kids and sick people are extremely vulnerable during wars and die a lot. Especially in WWII. First, obviously holocaust - most victims were from Eastern Europe and old, sick, kids had even lower chance to survive then physically strong people (not that it was high there, but). Second, German army was cleansing Eastern Europe for German settlement. That meant whole villages routinely burned out to ground. Third, famines and such, cause military extracts resources from people.
- piokoch 4y ago
  26 millions Soviets were not killed in WW2, as Soviet Union (and Russia today) adding to the WW2 kills victims of Soviet Gulag system (about 2 millions) and 6-10 millions Ukrainians starved to death during Holodomor genocide. BTW: WW2 losses are still exorbitant, even if we subtract those 10 millions, but no longer that "impressive" (Poland lost 6 millions people, which was almost 20% of the population, killed by Germans and Russians - till 1941 Hitler and Stalin were best pals).
  - kgeist 4y ago
    >6-10 millions Ukrainians starved to death during Holodomor genocide Ukraine's Holodomor happened in 1932-1933, and the census I mentioned is from 1939-1959. If you are implying that they were hiding Ukrainian losses in the 1930's and secretly added it to WW2 kill count then it's not quite true, censuses in 1926 and 1937 registered a drop in Ukrainian population from 31 mln to 26 mln. The results of the 1937 census were declassified only in 1990 and the revised number (26 mln) was estimated in the 1990's after the collapse of USSR and on the basis of declassified documents in Soviet archives. >adding to the WW2 kills victims of Soviet Gulag system (about 2 millions) Documents from the Soviet archives number the total deaths of prisoners in the Gulag from 1941 to 1945 at 621,637 (Evdokimov, 1995)

by pm90 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

vlovich123 4y ago

That + killing/imprisoning a lot of your own population + creating an economic climate where it was hard to sustain your family + creating a political climate favoring emigration?

vkazanov 4y ago
Huh? The population was booming in the post-war USSR as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Soviet_Uni... Compare with the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Sta... And population growth in the pre-WW1 Russian Empire was even higher, despite having regular food shortage and hunger period. In general, pre-industrial agrarian societies tend to have much higher birth rates than industrial and post-industrial ones. For some strange reason the US nowadays is comparable in the percentage of prisoners in USSR in worst Gulag years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_incarceration_rate_with_other_countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_in... I don't have an explanation here, TBH. The US is a rich and socially advanced country. In comparison to Europe this feels very wrong.
- pell 4y ago
  >For some strange reason the US nowadays is comparable in the percentage of prisoners in USSR in worst Gulag years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_in... I don't have an explanation here, TBH. The US is a rich and socially advanced country. In comparison to Europe this feels very wrong. The US justice system is very broken. No matter where one stands politically (e.g. be more lenient or be tougher on crime), the current system is suffering from bureaucracy, ineffectiveness, ineptitude and slowness. It's caught in an endless feedback loop.
watwut 4y ago
To add to what other person responded, birth rates fell down after communism fell. They were higher during USSR times then now. Not just in Russia, but everywhere in post communist world.
pranavjoneja 4y ago
not totally clear if this is the point you’re trying to make, but the US today fits that description exactly > killing/imprisoning a lot of your own population the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world > creating an economic climate where it was hard to sustain your family the cost of housing has far outgrown the median household income and in many places you need 2+ income earners to sustain a household meaning nobody has time to raise children

kgeist 4y ago

>Their population never boomed like it did in the US post WW2, possibly because of the massive loss of lives in the war Checked the censuses: USSR: 170,467,186 (1939) 208,826,650 (1959) USA: 132,164,569 (1940) 179,323,175 (1960) USSR: +38 mln USA: +47 mln I'd say it's pretty comparable, if you also consider that 26 mln Soviets were killed in WW2

idlehand 4y ago
26 million, mostly in prime working and childbearing age - so a larger effect on future population size than the number itself implies.
- watwut 4y ago
  > mostly in prime working and childbearing age You have seen that in stats or just assume? Because civilian causalities in WWII outnumber military ones. Old people, kids and sick people are extremely vulnerable during wars and die a lot. Especially in WWII. First, obviously holocaust - most victims were from Eastern Europe and old, sick, kids had even lower chance to survive then physically strong people (not that it was high there, but). Second, German army was cleansing Eastern Europe for German settlement. That meant whole villages routinely burned out to ground. Third, famines and such, cause military extracts resources from people.
piokoch 4y ago
26 millions Soviets were not killed in WW2, as Soviet Union (and Russia today) adding to the WW2 kills victims of Soviet Gulag system (about 2 millions) and 6-10 millions Ukrainians starved to death during Holodomor genocide. BTW: WW2 losses are still exorbitant, even if we subtract those 10 millions, but no longer that "impressive" (Poland lost 6 millions people, which was almost 20% of the population, killed by Germans and Russians - till 1941 Hitler and Stalin were best pals).
- kgeist 4y ago
  >6-10 millions Ukrainians starved to death during Holodomor genocide Ukraine's Holodomor happened in 1932-1933, and the census I mentioned is from 1939-1959. If you are implying that they were hiding Ukrainian losses in the 1930's and secretly added it to WW2 kill count then it's not quite true, censuses in 1926 and 1937 registered a drop in Ukrainian population from 31 mln to 26 mln. The results of the 1937 census were declassified only in 1990 and the revised number (26 mln) was estimated in the 1990's after the collapse of USSR and on the basis of declassified documents in Soviet archives. >adding to the WW2 kills victims of Soviet Gulag system (about 2 millions) Documents from the Soviet archives number the total deaths of prisoners in the Gulag from 1941 to 1945 at 621,637 (Evdokimov, 1995)