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Salesforce has "unlimited PTO", which is what it is. I'm not a fan of such a policy and depending on team, it is probably better than Amazon's 10 days of PTO.

Salesforce has "unlimited PTO", which is what it is. I'm not a fan of such a policy and depending on team, it is probably better than Amazon's 10 days of PTO. Acquisitions (depending on how they are handle) go through a period of autonomy and then absorption. Saw this when I was with MSFT and Skype. Honestly this post sounds a bit whiny and lacking reality in how acquisitions go about.

RSHEPP 4y ago
My God Amazon's PTO policy is terrible. I made the assumption that it would be quite good, but even an O&G company I used to work for had better than that.
- throwawaysleep 4y ago
  Is anything about Amazon good except for the pay and the reputation?
  - CSMastermind 4y ago
    I don't consider the reputation a positive.
eloisius 4y ago
They have that if you’re SMTS (L7) and above. You can actually use it, but you have to have a good manager and advocate for yourself to take the benefit that is in your job description, otherwise it’s just a nice benefit on paper and probably saves the company money.
- bb611 4y ago
  That was the policy several years ago but was changed in 2019 to include at least all salaried roles in the engineering org, and I believe across TMP.
procinct 4y ago
Jesus 10 days PTO? That seems unbelievably stingy.
- jmspring 4y ago
  Amazon's vacation policy -- https://www.amazon.jobs/en/landing_pages/pto-overview-us https://www.amazon.jobs/en/landing_pages/pto-overview-us MSFT at least started at 3 weeks.
  - tptacek 4y ago
    Per this document, AMZN is 3 weeks after your first year of employment.
    - jmspring 4y ago
      True, but surviving that first year. Also - vacation and tenure in industry is often disconnected. I have and know others that have negotiated time off as a benefit when at small companies. I think with Amazon, there is the added element of taking time and team expectations. I have not worked there, just from friend's experience.
- stevage 4y ago
  Wow. In Australia the legislated minimum is 20. plus 11 or so public holidays.
  - Handytinge 4y ago
    12 in ACT, lazy buggers.
- Griffinsauce 4y ago
  That's literally half of the legal minimum here in the Netherlands. I keep being surprised at how people in the US allow themselves to be worked to death.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
paulgb 4y ago
> Honestly this post sounds a bit whiny and lacking reality in how acquisitions go about. I think you’re reading more into the post than is actually there. It’s three sentences written in a pretty matter-of-fact voice, giving context on the old policy and management’s messaging on the new one. As someone following the labor side of the tech industry, I found it to be an interesting data point.
- jmspring 4y ago
  The post was about a benefit being taken away. The acquisition is multiple years into being done. It’s what happens in acquisitions.
generalpf 4y ago
Keep in mind that a lot of Slack’s employees —- especially early ones —- are Canadian, and Canadians don’t get unlimited PTO (by law, I think). So they are being told when they should be using some of their PTO days.
- fooster 4y ago
  Canadian here. There is no law against unlimited PTO. There are laws about statutory minimums however.
- jmspring 4y ago
  Personally, I think most of the "western world" has a more healthy idea of PTO than the US. Some companies here are better than the norm, but a lot are not really great.
all_factz 4y ago
Wanting to retain a benefit you had for years is whiny? What are the execs giving up in exchange for asking their employees to work harder? Way to punch down, dude.
Griffinsauce 4y ago
Couldn't these employees then all just take PTO around that time with the same arrangement?
- nisegami 4y ago
  Unless it's specifically a period where operations wind down, don't companies try to stagger leave?
  - mholm 4y ago
    Even Slack previously had shifts where people would be on-call or actively monitoring as necessary. PTO isn't closely tracked within the company (usually) so I'd wager there's nothing stopping this from happening as usual, unless somebody has already used 4+ weeks of PTO in the year.

RSHEPP 4y ago

My God Amazon's PTO policy is terrible. I made the assumption that it would be quite good, but even an O&G company I used to work for had better than that.

throwawaysleep 4y ago
Is anything about Amazon good except for the pay and the reputation?
- CSMastermind 4y ago
  I don't consider the reputation a positive.

eloisius 4y ago

They have that if you’re SMTS (L7) and above. You can actually use it, but you have to have a good manager and advocate for yourself to take the benefit that is in your job description, otherwise it’s just a nice benefit on paper and probably saves the company money.

bb611 4y ago
That was the policy several years ago but was changed in 2019 to include at least all salaried roles in the engineering org, and I believe across TMP.

procinct 4y ago

Jesus 10 days PTO? That seems unbelievably stingy.

jmspring 4y ago
Amazon's vacation policy -- https://www.amazon.jobs/en/landing_pages/pto-overview-us https://www.amazon.jobs/en/landing_pages/pto-overview-us MSFT at least started at 3 weeks.
- tptacek 4y ago
  Per this document, AMZN is 3 weeks after your first year of employment.
  - jmspring 4y ago
    True, but surviving that first year. Also - vacation and tenure in industry is often disconnected. I have and know others that have negotiated time off as a benefit when at small companies. I think with Amazon, there is the added element of taking time and team expectations. I have not worked there, just from friend's experience.
stevage 4y ago
Wow. In Australia the legislated minimum is 20. plus 11 or so public holidays.
- Handytinge 4y ago
  12 in ACT, lazy buggers.
Griffinsauce 4y ago
That's literally half of the legal minimum here in the Netherlands. I keep being surprised at how people in the US allow themselves to be worked to death.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

paulgb 4y ago

> Honestly this post sounds a bit whiny and lacking reality in how acquisitions go about. I think you’re reading more into the post than is actually there. It’s three sentences written in a pretty matter-of-fact voice, giving context on the old policy and management’s messaging on the new one. As someone following the labor side of the tech industry, I found it to be an interesting data point.

jmspring 4y ago
The post was about a benefit being taken away. The acquisition is multiple years into being done. It’s what happens in acquisitions.

generalpf 4y ago

Keep in mind that a lot of Slack’s employees —- especially early ones —- are Canadian, and Canadians don’t get unlimited PTO (by law, I think). So they are being told when they should be using some of their PTO days.

fooster 4y ago
Canadian here. There is no law against unlimited PTO. There are laws about statutory minimums however.
jmspring 4y ago
Personally, I think most of the "western world" has a more healthy idea of PTO than the US. Some companies here are better than the norm, but a lot are not really great.

all_factz 4y ago

Wanting to retain a benefit you had for years is whiny? What are the execs giving up in exchange for asking their employees to work harder? Way to punch down, dude.

Griffinsauce 4y ago

Couldn't these employees then all just take PTO around that time with the same arrangement?

nisegami 4y ago
Unless it's specifically a period where operations wind down, don't companies try to stagger leave?
- mholm 4y ago
  Even Slack previously had shifts where people would be on-call or actively monitoring as necessary. PTO isn't closely tracked within the company (usually) so I'd wager there's nothing stopping this from happening as usual, unless somebody has already used 4+ weeks of PTO in the year.