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People tend to join when an issue that's important to them comes up. Everyone (retailers, consumers) unhappy with the chargeback system. Honest merchants lose

by mlyle 4y ago

People tend to join when an issue that's important to them comes up. Everyone (retailers, consumers) unhappy with the chargeback system. Honest merchants lose lots of money all the time. It can be difficult to make a chargeback for many kinds of dark patterns (e.g. subscription traps). The fact that everyone's mad makes me think it may not be too tilted against any party, but one would hope it could work better overall. > @mlyle: I appreciate you taking the time to dig into it more and raise the controversy to my attention. This is a helpful way to be, you are great. I have a hard time with benefit-of-the-doubt here and get reprimanded a fair bit. :D Just doing my best to improve things where I can.

gregmac 4y ago
> The fact that everyone's mad makes me think it may not be too tilted against any party "A good compromise leaves everybody mad" - https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1993/05/01 https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1993/05/01
lukesmith82 4y ago
I've been reading HN for nearly a decade and never commented, but mlyle has it spot on: this is an important issue to me and nearly all the commentary here was one sided.
- rvz 4y ago
  Thank you for your comment and perspective on this. It is more likely that most of the comments are from consumers that (secretly) actually do chargeback fraud themselves and have not run a small business and also want merchants, and businesses like yourself to lose all the time. I see it in digital subscriptions, influencers doing it and even users trying to lie their way into getting the service or product for free and the chargebacks hurt both the consumer and the merchant. It is indeed an important issue that must be tackled.
  - mlyle 4y ago
    > It is more likely that most of the comments are from consumers that (secretly) actually do chargeback fraud themselves *sigh* I think this is also unfair and presumes bad faith. Both honest consumers and honest merchants have a lot of reasons to feel aggrieved about how chargebacks are handled... and reasons to fear it getting worse. The worst of the dishonest of each lot have figured out how to tilt the current system to their favor, and may be quite happy with the status quo.

by mlyle 4y ago

gregmac 4y ago

> The fact that everyone's mad makes me think it may not be too tilted against any party "A good compromise leaves everybody mad" - https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1993/05/01 https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1993/05/01

lukesmith82 4y ago

I've been reading HN for nearly a decade and never commented, but mlyle has it spot on: this is an important issue to me and nearly all the commentary here was one sided.

rvz 4y ago
Thank you for your comment and perspective on this. It is more likely that most of the comments are from consumers that (secretly) actually do chargeback fraud themselves and have not run a small business and also want merchants, and businesses like yourself to lose all the time. I see it in digital subscriptions, influencers doing it and even users trying to lie their way into getting the service or product for free and the chargebacks hurt both the consumer and the merchant. It is indeed an important issue that must be tackled.
- mlyle 4y ago
  > It is more likely that most of the comments are from consumers that (secretly) actually do chargeback fraud themselves *sigh* I think this is also unfair and presumes bad faith. Both honest consumers and honest merchants have a lot of reasons to feel aggrieved about how chargebacks are handled... and reasons to fear it getting worse. The worst of the dishonest of each lot have figured out how to tilt the current system to their favor, and may be quite happy with the status quo.