3 ms·

While the description of the conference from the author's perspective certainly shows a stark lack of professionalism, it seems to be quite a jump to then attri

While the description of the conference from the author's perspective certainly shows a stark lack of professionalism, it seems to be quite a jump to then attribute it to a lack of diversity in the field. That lack of professionalism can't or shouldn't be defended, but neither can the hypocrisy in the post about it. For a thinly veiled post about sexism and male dominance in an industry, the author makes no effort to avoid making some sexist remarks of her own (as highlighted by alex_c[0]). At risk of going off on a tangent, diversity is a good thing. Discrimination isn't. By extension, positive discrimination isn't a good thing. And the sooner everyone realises that the solution to the issue of poor diversity isn't even more discrimination, the better. This in its simplest form means not using your own race, gender, religion, age etc. to make a point in favour of your own demographic, and also not allowing other people to do the same against you. Because real diversity is when none of that actually matters. I have a slight feeling this may not be a popular point of view, but I find some of the popular thinking to be rather illogical. But the author makes a good point when taken solely on the merits of professionalism. [0] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3217306 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3217306

jonhendry 15y ago
"it seems to be quite a jump to then attribute it to a lack of diversity in the field." Oh? What would you attribute it to? It's quite likely that it is because of a lack of women. Some immature people get accustomed to working in a boy's club environment, and don't grow up, don't know how to act professionally. Note that you're making the error of assuming that attributing the cause to lack of diversity implies some kind of quota system to remedy the lack of diversity. More women would be great. Better would be for immature developers to grow up.
- FuzzyDunlop 15y ago
  Is it not a quota system that's typically used to remedy the lack of diversity? In the UK it hasn't been uncommon to do this quite openly as if it's a good thing. Territorial Army posters used to say they would only consider women and minorities for application. At best attributing it to diversity and playing the sex card oversimplifies things such as the individual's upbringing and his personality. People are all different, so I find it unfair to say that this is not the product of a person being a person, but a person who works in a male dominated environment. Is the implication thus that an industry needs more women for it to be more mature? That without diversity men (note how the article emphasises this is a male problem) will resort to making dick jokes and chatting about celebrities they'd bang all the time? And how is that implication any less offensive than the lack of professionalism the speaker exhibited? So to answer the question, I attribute this not to diversity or anything such, but to an individual who was, as you've said, immature. He alone does not make the entire development community immature, nor is he exemplary of a male dominated profession.

jonhendry 15y ago

"it seems to be quite a jump to then attribute it to a lack of diversity in the field." Oh? What would you attribute it to? It's quite likely that it is because of a lack of women. Some immature people get accustomed to working in a boy's club environment, and don't grow up, don't know how to act professionally. Note that you're making the error of assuming that attributing the cause to lack of diversity implies some kind of quota system to remedy the lack of diversity. More women would be great. Better would be for immature developers to grow up.

FuzzyDunlop 15y ago
Is it not a quota system that's typically used to remedy the lack of diversity? In the UK it hasn't been uncommon to do this quite openly as if it's a good thing. Territorial Army posters used to say they would only consider women and minorities for application. At best attributing it to diversity and playing the sex card oversimplifies things such as the individual's upbringing and his personality. People are all different, so I find it unfair to say that this is not the product of a person being a person, but a person who works in a male dominated environment. Is the implication thus that an industry needs more women for it to be more mature? That without diversity men (note how the article emphasises this is a male problem) will resort to making dick jokes and chatting about celebrities they'd bang all the time? And how is that implication any less offensive than the lack of professionalism the speaker exhibited? So to answer the question, I attribute this not to diversity or anything such, but to an individual who was, as you've said, immature. He alone does not make the entire development community immature, nor is he exemplary of a male dominated profession.