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Daniel Jalkut has posted his own take on the situation [1]. I appreciate it, because whenever these situations pop up, they quickly devolve into "tech is full

by funkah 15y ago

Daniel Jalkut has posted his own take on the situation [1]. I appreciate it, because whenever these situations pop up, they quickly devolve into "tech is full of unprofessional assholes" versus "stop being such a baby". He also provides some background for why the session was done that way in the first place. [1] http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/2266/how-to-talk-dirty http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/2266/how-to-talk-dirty

JonnieCache 15y ago
Here are the slides from the talk: http://www.mactech.com/sites/default/files/Lee-Ten_Dirty_Words_and_How_to_Use_Them.pdf http://www.mactech.com/sites/default/files/Lee-Ten_Dirty_Wor... Based on this more specific info, I don't actually think this is offensive at all, and it's actually rather funny. However, as with all jokes, it's how you tell 'em. I can imagine this all being done in a family friendly way. I can also imagine it being delivered in a wholly inappropriate drooling-pervert manner. We can't know unless we see a video. As jalkut says in the blogpost, the jokes write themselves. You could deliver this entire talk in a deadpan manner, reading out all the "dirty words" as if they're perfectly normal, and all the dirtyness is in the minds of the audience. This is the beauty of innuendo and double entendre, it allows you to be dirty without actually being dirty. There is a long tradition of this on BBC radio going back to the 60s, where unbelievably, unutterably filthy things have been talked about at 6:30pm, when children are having their dinner, via the potent medium of deadpan innuendo. The key is that everything should have be able to be parsed perfectly innocently, so if your children ask what it means you can tell them with no embarrassment. There have been things said at dinner time in this manner that would likely otherwise never have been allowed to be broadcast, at any time of day or night. In this case however, based on the OP reaction, I think it's more likely that the presenter was gurning his way through the talk, giving suggestive "LOL DICKS!" messages through his speech mannerisms and body language. These were likely the root cause of the uncomfortableness. But as I say, all this is speculation without video of the session.
- ceol 15y ago
  >Based on this more specific info, I don't actually think this is offensive at all, and it's actually rather funny. Really? It's just a collection of crude jokes. I can't imagine how you could present those slides in anything other than a perverted manner.
  - jonhendry 15y ago
    Well, the session was titled "The Ten Dirty Words And How To Use Them". If you sign up for a class about human sexual behavior, you shouldn't be offended when they talk about anal sex.
    - ceol 15y ago
      Are you really equating signing up for a developer conference to signing up for a class on sexual behavior? If I take a class on human sexual behavior, I don't expect 80% of it to be dick jokes.
      - jonhendry 15y ago
        No, I'm equating a conference session, likely one of several running at the time, described in the title itself as involving "dirty words", to a class on sexual behavior. If you go to a session that says it involves dirty words, you really shouldn't be surprised or offended when it involves dirty words, or at least attempts at saucy double entendres. Admittedly, one might think "dirty words" wasn't meant so literally - perhaps it meant "words that describe things you shouldn't do, like 'over-release'". That ought to have been made clear in the conference materials.
        pyre 15y ago
        I think the real thing here is that if the entire point of the session is to make dirty programming jokes, does the content of that session really provide anything to the conference? I don't think many people go to conferences expecting it to be like a comedy club... Just sayin'
- jonhendry 15y ago
  "There is a long tradition of this on BBC radio going back to the 60s, where unbelievably, unutterably filthy things have been talked about at 6:30pm, when children are having their dinner, via the potent medium of deadpan innuendo." Precisely. The humor involved sounds like the kind of thing you hear on Radio 4's News Quiz. Some of which is simply a BBC newsreader reading clippings from the media that have double meanings. (a non-sexual example: "The Bristol RSPCA is giving discounts on pet chipping. 15 pounds for cats and dogs, 10 pounds for old-age pensioners") Needless to say, the News Quiz loves to talk about UK shadow chancellor Ed Balls. It's possible, of course, that the speaker's presentation was rather less deadpan. But still, the woman who posted the complaint did have some warning of the content and tone.
  - JonnieCache 15y ago
    I was thinking more of Humph on I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue. "Samantha has to nip out now with her new gentleman friend. Apparently, they've been working on the restoration of an old chest of drawers. Samantha is in charge of polishing, while he scrapes the varnish and wax off next to her." "Samantha nearly made it - she's been detained at the last minute in the city's Latin quarter. An Italian gentleman friend has promised to take her out for an ice-cream, and she likes nothing better than to spend an evening licking the nuts off a large Neapolitan." To the uninitiated, try and imagine these being said by an 83 year old man who doesn't appear to realise that there is any other way to understand them, and that they are perfectly ordinary sentences. Oh yes, and samantha is an entirely fictional person who is constantly alluded to but doesn't exist. There's a moral question for you...
- scott_s 15y ago
  I actually don't think they're funny. That's not code for "I think they are inappropriate" (which at a developer's conference, I think they are inappropriate), but rather I don't find them humorous. It's the kind of easy humor people try for when they're not actually funny. I find listening to this sort of thing painful because I feel sorry for the speaker - trying to be funny, failing, and having to deal with it. With that said, even if the speaker did as you said and was completely deadpan, I would still think it's inappropriate. It's just not the appropriate place to even attempt to make those references, no matter how you do it. Among friends, I make and laugh at raunchy jokes. But professional environments should be more inclusive than that. This is what topical, appropriate and actually funny humor in a professional setting looks like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVp8UGjECt4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVp8UGjECt4
  - JonnieCache 15y ago
    You're right, they're not innately funny. They're incredibly juvenile and that is what could potentially make them funny: the incongruity of reading such sophomoric nonsense in a deadpan manner could potentially be very amusing. See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJKyztJJVdU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJKyztJJVdU (although this is something of a reversal of the concept)
  - jonhendry 15y ago
    It would probably have been appropriate to start off with a warning that the content would deal in off-color double-entendres, giving attendees with different sensibilities a few moments to leave and go to another session. And maybe a warning in the program beyond the name of the session.
    - yummyfajitas 15y ago
      If only the author had some way of knowing she might be offended. Then this whole incident might have been avoided! Oh wait, never mind: "I sat down to listen to a talk that I could tell by the title of the talk, was going to be inappropriate. I thought to myself, I’m at a respectful Mac conference... I’m sure it will be ok...The speaker prefaced his talk by basically stating there was a little substance, but that most of the topics were being presented simply because of the sexual or otherwise inappropriate jokes that could be formed from the topics..." The author is being quite inconsistent here. On the one hand, she thought she was at a "respectful Mac conference". On the other hand: ...this experience and other similar encounters I have had in the last three years as a Mac developer... So even though she's previously been exposed to dirty jokes before at mac events, she still thinks that "I’m at a respectful Mac conference...I’m sure it will be ok."
- droithomme 15y ago
  Thanks for posting the slides. I don't find them funny, I find them interesting and useful. It's a discussion on interesting aspects of the Cocoa libraries. The common theme is that dirty minds could find the names of certain calls naughty. But it's not discussed or the point of the slides at least. Seems like a reasonable talk. I was actually all set to defend the point of the author of the article, having read the article, but now seeing the slides I don't really see anything at all troublesome here. It's a valid tech talk. But as you say, perhaps the video of the session would indicate the slides were ignored and it was a wild free for all of obscenities and bigotry.

by funkah 15y ago

JonnieCache 15y ago

Here are the slides from the talk: http://www.mactech.com/sites/default/files/Lee-Ten_Dirty_Words_and_How_to_Use_Them.pdf http://www.mactech.com/sites/default/files/Lee-Ten_Dirty_Wor... Based on this more specific info, I don't actually think this is offensive at all, and it's actually rather funny. However, as with all jokes, it's how you tell 'em. I can imagine this all being done in a family friendly way. I can also imagine it being delivered in a wholly inappropriate drooling-pervert manner. We can't know unless we see a video. As jalkut says in the blogpost, the jokes write themselves. You could deliver this entire talk in a deadpan manner, reading out all the "dirty words" as if they're perfectly normal, and all the dirtyness is in the minds of the audience. This is the beauty of innuendo and double entendre, it allows you to be dirty without actually being dirty. There is a long tradition of this on BBC radio going back to the 60s, where unbelievably, unutterably filthy things have been talked about at 6:30pm, when children are having their dinner, via the potent medium of deadpan innuendo. The key is that everything should have be able to be parsed perfectly innocently, so if your children ask what it means you can tell them with no embarrassment. There have been things said at dinner time in this manner that would likely otherwise never have been allowed to be broadcast, at any time of day or night. In this case however, based on the OP reaction, I think it's more likely that the presenter was gurning his way through the talk, giving suggestive "LOL DICKS!" messages through his speech mannerisms and body language. These were likely the root cause of the uncomfortableness. But as I say, all this is speculation without video of the session.

ceol 15y ago
>Based on this more specific info, I don't actually think this is offensive at all, and it's actually rather funny. Really? It's just a collection of crude jokes. I can't imagine how you could present those slides in anything other than a perverted manner.
- jonhendry 15y ago
  Well, the session was titled "The Ten Dirty Words And How To Use Them". If you sign up for a class about human sexual behavior, you shouldn't be offended when they talk about anal sex.
  - ceol 15y ago
    Are you really equating signing up for a developer conference to signing up for a class on sexual behavior? If I take a class on human sexual behavior, I don't expect 80% of it to be dick jokes.
    - jonhendry 15y ago
      No, I'm equating a conference session, likely one of several running at the time, described in the title itself as involving "dirty words", to a class on sexual behavior. If you go to a session that says it involves dirty words, you really shouldn't be surprised or offended when it involves dirty words, or at least attempts at saucy double entendres. Admittedly, one might think "dirty words" wasn't meant so literally - perhaps it meant "words that describe things you shouldn't do, like 'over-release'". That ought to have been made clear in the conference materials.
      - pyre 15y ago
        I think the real thing here is that if the entire point of the session is to make dirty programming jokes, does the content of that session really provide anything to the conference? I don't think many people go to conferences expecting it to be like a comedy club... Just sayin'
jonhendry 15y ago
"There is a long tradition of this on BBC radio going back to the 60s, where unbelievably, unutterably filthy things have been talked about at 6:30pm, when children are having their dinner, via the potent medium of deadpan innuendo." Precisely. The humor involved sounds like the kind of thing you hear on Radio 4's News Quiz. Some of which is simply a BBC newsreader reading clippings from the media that have double meanings. (a non-sexual example: "The Bristol RSPCA is giving discounts on pet chipping. 15 pounds for cats and dogs, 10 pounds for old-age pensioners") Needless to say, the News Quiz loves to talk about UK shadow chancellor Ed Balls. It's possible, of course, that the speaker's presentation was rather less deadpan. But still, the woman who posted the complaint did have some warning of the content and tone.
- JonnieCache 15y ago
  I was thinking more of Humph on I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue. "Samantha has to nip out now with her new gentleman friend. Apparently, they've been working on the restoration of an old chest of drawers. Samantha is in charge of polishing, while he scrapes the varnish and wax off next to her." "Samantha nearly made it - she's been detained at the last minute in the city's Latin quarter. An Italian gentleman friend has promised to take her out for an ice-cream, and she likes nothing better than to spend an evening licking the nuts off a large Neapolitan." To the uninitiated, try and imagine these being said by an 83 year old man who doesn't appear to realise that there is any other way to understand them, and that they are perfectly ordinary sentences. Oh yes, and samantha is an entirely fictional person who is constantly alluded to but doesn't exist. There's a moral question for you...
scott_s 15y ago
I actually don't think they're funny. That's not code for "I think they are inappropriate" (which at a developer's conference, I think they are inappropriate), but rather I don't find them humorous. It's the kind of easy humor people try for when they're not actually funny. I find listening to this sort of thing painful because I feel sorry for the speaker - trying to be funny, failing, and having to deal with it. With that said, even if the speaker did as you said and was completely deadpan, I would still think it's inappropriate. It's just not the appropriate place to even attempt to make those references, no matter how you do it. Among friends, I make and laugh at raunchy jokes. But professional environments should be more inclusive than that. This is what topical, appropriate and actually funny humor in a professional setting looks like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVp8UGjECt4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVp8UGjECt4
- JonnieCache 15y ago
  You're right, they're not innately funny. They're incredibly juvenile and that is what could potentially make them funny: the incongruity of reading such sophomoric nonsense in a deadpan manner could potentially be very amusing. See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJKyztJJVdU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJKyztJJVdU (although this is something of a reversal of the concept)
- jonhendry 15y ago
  It would probably have been appropriate to start off with a warning that the content would deal in off-color double-entendres, giving attendees with different sensibilities a few moments to leave and go to another session. And maybe a warning in the program beyond the name of the session.
  - yummyfajitas 15y ago
    If only the author had some way of knowing she might be offended. Then this whole incident might have been avoided! Oh wait, never mind: "I sat down to listen to a talk that I could tell by the title of the talk, was going to be inappropriate. I thought to myself, I’m at a respectful Mac conference... I’m sure it will be ok...The speaker prefaced his talk by basically stating there was a little substance, but that most of the topics were being presented simply because of the sexual or otherwise inappropriate jokes that could be formed from the topics..." The author is being quite inconsistent here. On the one hand, she thought she was at a "respectful Mac conference". On the other hand: ...this experience and other similar encounters I have had in the last three years as a Mac developer... So even though she's previously been exposed to dirty jokes before at mac events, she still thinks that "I’m at a respectful Mac conference...I’m sure it will be ok."
droithomme 15y ago
Thanks for posting the slides. I don't find them funny, I find them interesting and useful. It's a discussion on interesting aspects of the Cocoa libraries. The common theme is that dirty minds could find the names of certain calls naughty. But it's not discussed or the point of the slides at least. Seems like a reasonable talk. I was actually all set to defend the point of the author of the article, having read the article, but now seeing the slides I don't really see anything at all troublesome here. It's a valid tech talk. But as you say, perhaps the video of the session would indicate the slides were ignored and it was a wild free for all of obscenities and bigotry.