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I think if you can prove that you tried to cancel and the merchant screwed up you should be fine. Hopefully you have a paper trail of them admitting its a “bug

I think if you can prove that you tried to cancel and the merchant screwed up you should be fine. Hopefully you have a paper trail of them admitting its a “bug in Billings”. Aside: One of the best things about AMEX is their customer support around chargebacks and I agree I hope they stay super friendly to this.

twblalock 4y ago
I switched back to Amex despite them offering worse rewards than my other card because of this. Other card: I returned an item, with proof of delivery via UPS tracking. Never got a refund. Opened a dispute. Weeks later, the dispute was resolved in the merchant's favor despite the merchant providing nothing as evidence except the original receipt. I had to call the help line, deal with several uncomprehending service reps until one of them re-opened the dispute, asking me to resubmit the same documents I submitted the first time! Finally the dispute was resolved in my favor a month later. Amex: I ordered some items from a local store to be delivered and the order was cancelled without my money being refunded. I received an email with a few questions, which I answered. A few weeks later the dispute was resolved in my favor. I still need to carry another card because some merchants don't accept Amex, but I use the Amex for everything I possibly can. I'm giving up some cash back rewards to do so, and I'm also paying an annual fee, but that's a small price to pay for getting better service when something goes wrong.
- kylehotchkiss 4y ago
  Amex Gold is pretty decent for travel rewards (4x for food/groceries) and amex points are ranked pretty well for value by the points guy (https://thepointsguy.com/guide/amex-points-value/ https://thepointsguy.com/guide/amex-points-value/) - certainly structured differently than cash back but free travel with a year or two of normal expenses isn't too bad a deal
  - twblalock 4y ago
    In the past few years the concept of "travel" has become a bit more difficult. I decided I'd rather have the simplicity of cash back instead.
yencabulator 4y ago
So what you're saying is that the vendors will now strive to make it harder to "prove you tried to cancel", just like they're already striving to make it harder to cancel.
- vineyardmike 4y ago
  Send an email to legal@company.com or ceo@company.com or any known-good generic email they have with a note saying “route this to legal”if the normal gui or CUstomer Support team doesn’t work. I’ve heard investor relations is always a good address that’s monitored by people that have spare time. You have now officially provided a written notice to company. If it’s a really big charge or something serious, send a certified letter. That means the US government is now testifying to the time and date of them receiving letter. Share that with Visa and see if that changes their opinion on the chargeback. Be polite, not emotional. Don’t threaten a lawyer or use any language you’d see on a TV legal show. If you’re in California feel free to cite their violation of this law [1]. Don’t threaten to sue. Don’t threaten a lawyer. Just mention that you have the right and you can’t use the UI as expected. If it’s bad you can say something like “if this isn’t resolved I may avail myself of other options afforded by $LAW”. Don’t specify what, don’t threaten they’ll regret it. Just let them know you are someone who is serious and non emotional. “Company X, I have tried to cancel this service but I am unable to due to X. After talking with CS they said it was due to $Bug. I talked with $Person at $Date. Let this serve as a formal notice that I will no longer be paying for service and no longer wish to be charged. I will be instructing Visa to reject further charges after $new_future_date. Please Acknowledge Reciept of this notice. Signed Person. Todays Date is X” https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/04/californias-new-online-cancellation-law-benefits-many-disgruntled-subscribers-in-other-places-too/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/04/californias-new-online-can...
  - yencabulator 4y ago
    > After talking with CS they said it was due to $Bug. Customer support will be (/is) trained to never say such a thing, then. Also, you are normalizing the idea that customers can be forced to jump through arbitrary hoops; you've just invented one yourself. I'd much rather have this behavior be illegal (see recent FTC ruling).
mission_failed 4y ago
Meanwhile Amex sided with an Australian airline that cancelled flights due to covid, despite the airline being in the news as in financial strife and going into administration.
loeg 4y ago
How do you prove to Visa's satisfaction that you called to cancel, for example?
- thaeli 4y ago
  Hard copy sent via registered mail? There's probably a service for this.
- vineyardmike 4y ago
  Ask them what they want as proof? I think a certified mail to legal of the company (and a reasonable period of time for them to correct) is probably a good start. If they actually tell you the bill was a mistake, that should definitely be proof.
dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
I never use Amex because they're the only card that has denied me a chargeback. Basically the hotel runs a nice little scam and Amex enables it. They seem to be very shy about accepting chargebacks to hotels. The scam was that you'd book a cancellable room and the hotel would cancel your booking after they accepted it due to "unavailability of the room" (wtf), then rebook an identical "alternative" room "at the cheapest rate" which happens to be an uncancellable room at $1 less. Why? Because they are impossible to find. No taxi driver can find them. Maybe don't exist. By the time you find this out you can't cancel the room.

twblalock 4y ago

I switched back to Amex despite them offering worse rewards than my other card because of this. Other card: I returned an item, with proof of delivery via UPS tracking. Never got a refund. Opened a dispute. Weeks later, the dispute was resolved in the merchant's favor despite the merchant providing nothing as evidence except the original receipt. I had to call the help line, deal with several uncomprehending service reps until one of them re-opened the dispute, asking me to resubmit the same documents I submitted the first time! Finally the dispute was resolved in my favor a month later. Amex: I ordered some items from a local store to be delivered and the order was cancelled without my money being refunded. I received an email with a few questions, which I answered. A few weeks later the dispute was resolved in my favor. I still need to carry another card because some merchants don't accept Amex, but I use the Amex for everything I possibly can. I'm giving up some cash back rewards to do so, and I'm also paying an annual fee, but that's a small price to pay for getting better service when something goes wrong.

kylehotchkiss 4y ago
Amex Gold is pretty decent for travel rewards (4x for food/groceries) and amex points are ranked pretty well for value by the points guy (https://thepointsguy.com/guide/amex-points-value/ https://thepointsguy.com/guide/amex-points-value/) - certainly structured differently than cash back but free travel with a year or two of normal expenses isn't too bad a deal
- twblalock 4y ago
  In the past few years the concept of "travel" has become a bit more difficult. I decided I'd rather have the simplicity of cash back instead.

yencabulator 4y ago

So what you're saying is that the vendors will now strive to make it harder to "prove you tried to cancel", just like they're already striving to make it harder to cancel.

vineyardmike 4y ago
Send an email to legal@company.com or ceo@company.com or any known-good generic email they have with a note saying “route this to legal”if the normal gui or CUstomer Support team doesn’t work. I’ve heard investor relations is always a good address that’s monitored by people that have spare time. You have now officially provided a written notice to company. If it’s a really big charge or something serious, send a certified letter. That means the US government is now testifying to the time and date of them receiving letter. Share that with Visa and see if that changes their opinion on the chargeback. Be polite, not emotional. Don’t threaten a lawyer or use any language you’d see on a TV legal show. If you’re in California feel free to cite their violation of this law [1]. Don’t threaten to sue. Don’t threaten a lawyer. Just mention that you have the right and you can’t use the UI as expected. If it’s bad you can say something like “if this isn’t resolved I may avail myself of other options afforded by $LAW”. Don’t specify what, don’t threaten they’ll regret it. Just let them know you are someone who is serious and non emotional. “Company X, I have tried to cancel this service but I am unable to due to X. After talking with CS they said it was due to $Bug. I talked with $Person at $Date. Let this serve as a formal notice that I will no longer be paying for service and no longer wish to be charged. I will be instructing Visa to reject further charges after $new_future_date. Please Acknowledge Reciept of this notice. Signed Person. Todays Date is X” https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/04/californias-new-online-cancellation-law-benefits-many-disgruntled-subscribers-in-other-places-too/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/04/californias-new-online-can...
- yencabulator 4y ago
  > After talking with CS they said it was due to $Bug. Customer support will be (/is) trained to never say such a thing, then. Also, you are normalizing the idea that customers can be forced to jump through arbitrary hoops; you've just invented one yourself. I'd much rather have this behavior be illegal (see recent FTC ruling).

mission_failed 4y ago

Meanwhile Amex sided with an Australian airline that cancelled flights due to covid, despite the airline being in the news as in financial strife and going into administration.

loeg 4y ago

How do you prove to Visa's satisfaction that you called to cancel, for example?

thaeli 4y ago
Hard copy sent via registered mail? There's probably a service for this.
vineyardmike 4y ago
Ask them what they want as proof? I think a certified mail to legal of the company (and a reasonable period of time for them to correct) is probably a good start. If they actually tell you the bill was a mistake, that should definitely be proof.

dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago

I never use Amex because they're the only card that has denied me a chargeback. Basically the hotel runs a nice little scam and Amex enables it. They seem to be very shy about accepting chargebacks to hotels. The scam was that you'd book a cancellable room and the hotel would cancel your booking after they accepted it due to "unavailability of the room" (wtf), then rebook an identical "alternative" room "at the cheapest rate" which happens to be an uncancellable room at $1 less. Why? Because they are impossible to find. No taxi driver can find them. Maybe don't exist. By the time you find this out you can't cancel the room.