4 ms·

I hate to "be that guy" but this ends up being a both sides issue. There was a notice sent around to some churches after the RvW appeal to be vigilant since the

I hate to "be that guy" but this ends up being a both sides issue. There was a notice sent around to some churches after the RvW appeal to be vigilant since they had received some info on people possibly acting violently towards churches since they blamed them for it. (Edit to add: Please see https://janesrevenge.noblogs.org/2022/06/26/janes-revenge-night-of-rage-communique/ https://janesrevenge.noblogs.org/2022/06/26/janes-revenge-ni... -- these are pointedly anti-fascists, the opposite of the right. So this is a both sides issue.) Americans just don't seem to want to get along and understand on any side of the aisle. I can't talk politics to my family since they're all charged on their views and if I differ we just argue.

trasz 4y ago
>people possibly acting violently towards churches since they blamed them for it. Why, I wonder. /s
- bsagdiyev 4y ago
  Justify it however you like. Violence just makes people go against you and is wrong, full stop.
  - trasz 4y ago
    Except that in this case the "violence" is actually defence. It's the Church that's the source of birther's fringe ideas, which led to laws that violate fundamental human rights.
  - corrral 4y ago
    > Violence just makes people go against you and is wrong, full stop. That's... quite a bold assertion.
watwut 4y ago
Yeah no. The political and especially terrorist acts are not two side issues, they in fact flow from right much more. It is just that right always gets benefit of doubt. But also, overturn of RoW is long term work of evangelicals.
- kokanator 4y ago
  This is a VERY bold statement to make without citing any sources. If for instance you were to look across recent world history you will find many communist ( left ) groups/factions are exceedingly violent toward civilians and account for millions of civilian deaths.[0] In this country very recently, "...New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio... blamed anarchists and "far-left extremist" groups, including antifa, for inciting and organizing violent riots"[1] I am not say that violence is not perpetrated by those on the right but your statement is a gross misrepresentation. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_... [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_and_controversies_during_the_George_Floyd_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_and_controversies_dur...
  - teh64 4y ago
    Some balance for the first link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-communist_mass_killings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-communist_mass_killings
  - watwut 4y ago
    Gotta love how you responded to contemporary risk of violence in America with link to ... great purge in Russia in 1938. And a link that does not shows left wing as more violent then right wing. Also, I said majority and I stand by that. The terrorism in USA is more likely to go from right wing then from anything else (including muslims). It is right wing media and politicians who promote violence. It is right who is actively talking about violent usurpation of power and builds militias. It is right wing who engineered 6.1. and repeatedly tried to blame left and "antifa" for it. It is right wing who is trying to get control over education by harassing and threatening (actual physical threats) opposition. There is also no symmetry in who gets promoted and wins elections on either side. The more aggressive and radical side on right wing is having control over the party. As much as they try to make it look like there is symmetry with Democratic leadership, there is none. If anything, democratic leadership is incapable to stand up to them and constantly looking for non-existent bipartisanship. America does not have actual communist party or activism going on to speak of. Communists are not getting votes. It does have fascist politicians getting more and more votes within GOP. And it does have right wing trying to frame any social system they dont like or public education as "communist" to make it look like there is symmetry.
danaris 4y ago
Ah, yes, both sides have tried resorting to violence. One side has tried resorting to violence in order to prevent the other side from voting, enshrine one religion as the law of the land, guarantee one "race" its supremacy, and literally overthrow the legitimately elected government. The other side has tried resorting to violence when the first side asserted control over half of their bodies, murdered them in the streets while under the supposed motto of "serve and protect", and tried to take away their right to vote and literally overthrow the elected government. Yes, I can see that "both sides" are clearly equally bad. After all, if someone stabs you in the gut, and you punch him in the face, you're just as bad as he is, right?
teh64 4y ago
So on the one hand, you have vandalism and arson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane%27s_Revenge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane%27s_Revenge), and on the other multiple mass shootings with deaths (just one of the many, from this year which is from a right winger: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Buffalo_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Buffalo_shooting). I do not excuse this "Jane's Revenge" group, but that is some really weak both sides stuff. Especially because a lot of right wing church groups act violently towards abortion clinics! Which is a real glass houses moment.

trasz 4y ago

>people possibly acting violently towards churches since they blamed them for it. Why, I wonder. /s

bsagdiyev 4y ago
Justify it however you like. Violence just makes people go against you and is wrong, full stop.
- trasz 4y ago
  Except that in this case the "violence" is actually defence. It's the Church that's the source of birther's fringe ideas, which led to laws that violate fundamental human rights.
- corrral 4y ago
  > Violence just makes people go against you and is wrong, full stop. That's... quite a bold assertion.

watwut 4y ago

Yeah no. The political and especially terrorist acts are not two side issues, they in fact flow from right much more. It is just that right always gets benefit of doubt. But also, overturn of RoW is long term work of evangelicals.

kokanator 4y ago
This is a VERY bold statement to make without citing any sources. If for instance you were to look across recent world history you will find many communist ( left ) groups/factions are exceedingly violent toward civilians and account for millions of civilian deaths.[0] In this country very recently, "...New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio... blamed anarchists and "far-left extremist" groups, including antifa, for inciting and organizing violent riots"[1] I am not say that violence is not perpetrated by those on the right but your statement is a gross misrepresentation. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_... [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_and_controversies_during_the_George_Floyd_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_and_controversies_dur...
- teh64 4y ago
  Some balance for the first link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-communist_mass_killings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-communist_mass_killings
- watwut 4y ago
  Gotta love how you responded to contemporary risk of violence in America with link to ... great purge in Russia in 1938. And a link that does not shows left wing as more violent then right wing. Also, I said majority and I stand by that. The terrorism in USA is more likely to go from right wing then from anything else (including muslims). It is right wing media and politicians who promote violence. It is right who is actively talking about violent usurpation of power and builds militias. It is right wing who engineered 6.1. and repeatedly tried to blame left and "antifa" for it. It is right wing who is trying to get control over education by harassing and threatening (actual physical threats) opposition. There is also no symmetry in who gets promoted and wins elections on either side. The more aggressive and radical side on right wing is having control over the party. As much as they try to make it look like there is symmetry with Democratic leadership, there is none. If anything, democratic leadership is incapable to stand up to them and constantly looking for non-existent bipartisanship. America does not have actual communist party or activism going on to speak of. Communists are not getting votes. It does have fascist politicians getting more and more votes within GOP. And it does have right wing trying to frame any social system they dont like or public education as "communist" to make it look like there is symmetry.

danaris 4y ago

Ah, yes, both sides have tried resorting to violence. One side has tried resorting to violence in order to prevent the other side from voting, enshrine one religion as the law of the land, guarantee one "race" its supremacy, and literally overthrow the legitimately elected government. The other side has tried resorting to violence when the first side asserted control over half of their bodies, murdered them in the streets while under the supposed motto of "serve and protect", and tried to take away their right to vote and literally overthrow the elected government. Yes, I can see that "both sides" are clearly equally bad. After all, if someone stabs you in the gut, and you punch him in the face, you're just as bad as he is, right?

teh64 4y ago

So on the one hand, you have vandalism and arson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane%27s_Revenge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane%27s_Revenge), and on the other multiple mass shootings with deaths (just one of the many, from this year which is from a right winger: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Buffalo_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Buffalo_shooting). I do not excuse this "Jane's Revenge" group, but that is some really weak both sides stuff. Especially because a lot of right wing church groups act violently towards abortion clinics! Which is a real glass houses moment.