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While the USA was once a true federation of sovereign states that really hasn't been the case since at least the Civil War, over 150 years ago. States depend he

While the USA was once a true federation of sovereign states that really hasn't been the case since at least the Civil War, over 150 years ago. States depend heavily on the federal government for assistance, standardization, and regulation, and even depend on their neighbors for logistical support in various industries as well as energy and water. For all its touted net-contribution to the federal budget California would not survive on its own, as it depends on electricity from other states and water from the Colorado River (a shared resource between several states). To be sure, California puts these shared resources to extremely productive use and pays back the value to its neighbors, but this kind of interdependence probably would not exist if California went rebel.

hinkley 4y ago
I haven't heard much talk of Californians dreaming of becoming independent, but maybe I'm traveling in the wrong circles. What I have heard is people talking smack about kicking California out, and taking 10% of the US GDP with it. Which would be dumb for the rest of us.
- conradev 4y ago
  There is this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_... but they want to secede from existing states, not from the union
  - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
    The fact that all of the different economic regions in CA have to answer to one shitty state government is absolutely mind boggling. Imaging the Boston-DC corridor being one state and how dysfunctional that would be.
- antonymy 4y ago
  It's an attitude I've encountered with some Californians. I wouldn't call it a common one, since most Californians seem to be aware of their dependence on their neighbors for energy and water. But as for "kicking out" California, I'm not sure any such mechanism even exists in the Constitution. While the USA might not be a proper federation of states anymore, vestigial bits of the federation still exist, particularly when it comes to representation and self determination of states. If a civil war or rebellion did break out I don't think it'd happen along state lines. The kind of power the states now wield actually depends on the existence of the union, so I don't see them wanting to destroy that relationship.
- weaksauce 4y ago
  california has the 6th largest gdp in the world... ahead of every country save 5(that's including the US). California is a juggernaut and just saying that it would be taking 10% of the US GDP is underselling it.
  - yucky 4y ago
    They wouldn't survive very long without water. You can't drink GDP.
    - weaksauce 4y ago
      what do you think desalination plants would do?
      - sickofparadox 4y ago
        Probably not much, since California routinely can't even import enough electricity to power itself now.
yencabulator 4y ago
You do realize countries routinely buy electricity from other countries? Just because there's a country border doesn't mean trade can't flow over it. Now, of course, if you were at war, such dependency would hurt, for sure. But on the long term, country borders don't mean that much to capitalism.

hinkley 4y ago

I haven't heard much talk of Californians dreaming of becoming independent, but maybe I'm traveling in the wrong circles. What I have heard is people talking smack about kicking California out, and taking 10% of the US GDP with it. Which would be dumb for the rest of us.

conradev 4y ago
There is this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_... but they want to secede from existing states, not from the union
- throwaway0a5e 4y ago
  The fact that all of the different economic regions in CA have to answer to one shitty state government is absolutely mind boggling. Imaging the Boston-DC corridor being one state and how dysfunctional that would be.
antonymy 4y ago
It's an attitude I've encountered with some Californians. I wouldn't call it a common one, since most Californians seem to be aware of their dependence on their neighbors for energy and water. But as for "kicking out" California, I'm not sure any such mechanism even exists in the Constitution. While the USA might not be a proper federation of states anymore, vestigial bits of the federation still exist, particularly when it comes to representation and self determination of states. If a civil war or rebellion did break out I don't think it'd happen along state lines. The kind of power the states now wield actually depends on the existence of the union, so I don't see them wanting to destroy that relationship.
weaksauce 4y ago
california has the 6th largest gdp in the world... ahead of every country save 5(that's including the US). California is a juggernaut and just saying that it would be taking 10% of the US GDP is underselling it.
- yucky 4y ago
  They wouldn't survive very long without water. You can't drink GDP.
  - weaksauce 4y ago
    what do you think desalination plants would do?
    - sickofparadox 4y ago
      Probably not much, since California routinely can't even import enough electricity to power itself now.

yencabulator 4y ago

You do realize countries routinely buy electricity from other countries? Just because there's a country border doesn't mean trade can't flow over it. Now, of course, if you were at war, such dependency would hurt, for sure. But on the long term, country borders don't mean that much to capitalism.