5 ms·

If you lived next to a diamond mine, you probably wouldn't buy diamond rings. I say this because I assume you are a compassionate/empathetic person to some degr

by yelsgib 15y ago

If you lived next to a diamond mine, you probably wouldn't buy diamond rings. I say this because I assume you are a compassionate/empathetic person to some degree, and I think it would be very difficult for you to separate out your feelings towards the terrible conditions/bloodshed involved in diamond mining and the shining ring that you just bought from the smiling slave-driver. The only reason that you could ever be comfortable buying such a ring is that you are far removed from the suffering involved in your purchase. There are two complicating factors here: visibility and paucity of influence. You can't see the bad thing happening and you, individually, don't have the power to stop it. The interaction between visibility and morality is a complicated one, but the fact is that if people in the most affluent nations boycotted diamonds then diamond mining would cease. If people boycotted Coca-Cola and Fiji spring water then villagers would get their water back. The fact that you can't control these situations also complicates things. You can stop buying Coca Cola but, unless everyone else does to, CC is just going to just keep on stealing resources. I think that the thing I really dislike about your comment is that you have the audacity to condemn the wrongs committed, but lack the integrity to acknowledge that you play, at least, some very small part in those wrong things happening. Because you do. If you don't buy that diamond ring then that is real $$$ that the diamond miners don't get. The hole created by your boycott has a non-zero probability of shutting down a diamond mine. The fact is that you don't care. I'm not saying you should - I'm just saying you don't. And the people doing these "wrong" things don't care either. Perhaps you could say that you would do differently in their situation, but my guess is that you are REALLY not in their situation and you have no idea what their situation is AT ALL. I get it. You're in a comfortable position. There's no reason for you to change. You probably don't care enough about people in China, etc. that you're actually going to significantly, or even insignificantly, change your day to help them out. In fact, it's not even clear that you can. This may sound like a criticism, but I really don't care what you do. The main element missing from your comment is the answer to "what to do?" My guess is that your answer is "Nothing. There are bad people elsewhere, and I'm not to blame, so I do nothing. Let them figure it out." I guess I hope this isn't actually your answer and that you realize that it's a lot more complicated. These people are "unscrupulous" not because they're full of demons, but because globalization exerts pressure and men sacrifice their better intentions when faced with that pressure.

nightski 15y ago
It's pretty obvious that if you stop drinking CC, no one else will stop because you did. Meaning the events are conditionally independent. In my opinion, rallying large groups of people is the only way to make a difference. So really day to day choices you make on what to purchase have no effect on the system. I would argue that the only real way to change is attempting to effect group think. Individual purchase decisions will not do this. Only organized efforts will. Meaning everyone is just as responsible for not doing this, whether they buy the product or not. Again, if slavery is going on, whether you buy the product involved or not, we are all equally guilty for allowing it to continue. Buying the product is irrelevent.
- AznHisoka 15y ago
  I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but my view is that I was not asked to be born under these circumstances (over population, unequality of wealth, unfairness, etc). I never was in charge of dictating the type of world I wanted to live in. Therefore, why do I have the burden to do something about unfairness in this world? It's like saying to a developer "Go fix this bug RIGHT NOW!", and then when he/she asks for commit permissions, you reply back "Sorry, you need to sign this form, and give it to HR, then send an email to the DBAs, and wait a couple of days.. but still FIX IT NOW!"
  - yelsgib 15y ago
    This way of thinking doesn't make sense. No one is claiming that you're responsible as in you need to fix this. We're claiming that you're responsible in the sense that you're part of the cause (or, in the language of Nagarjuna the "dominant condition" -http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/307/nagarlec.htm http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/307/nagarlec.htm) of the exploitation of people in third world countries. There are many other conditions besides you, of course. The most important goal is to deeply realize your position and relation to other people - how you act after you realize this is up to you/your emotional makeup/your virtues/etc. My claim is that because of the complicating factors (visibility and ineffectiveness) inherent in this situation you aren't able to fully understand this relationship.

by yelsgib 15y ago

nightski 15y ago

It's pretty obvious that if you stop drinking CC, no one else will stop because you did. Meaning the events are conditionally independent. In my opinion, rallying large groups of people is the only way to make a difference. So really day to day choices you make on what to purchase have no effect on the system. I would argue that the only real way to change is attempting to effect group think. Individual purchase decisions will not do this. Only organized efforts will. Meaning everyone is just as responsible for not doing this, whether they buy the product or not. Again, if slavery is going on, whether you buy the product involved or not, we are all equally guilty for allowing it to continue. Buying the product is irrelevent.

AznHisoka 15y ago
I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but my view is that I was not asked to be born under these circumstances (over population, unequality of wealth, unfairness, etc). I never was in charge of dictating the type of world I wanted to live in. Therefore, why do I have the burden to do something about unfairness in this world? It's like saying to a developer "Go fix this bug RIGHT NOW!", and then when he/she asks for commit permissions, you reply back "Sorry, you need to sign this form, and give it to HR, then send an email to the DBAs, and wait a couple of days.. but still FIX IT NOW!"
- yelsgib 15y ago
  This way of thinking doesn't make sense. No one is claiming that you're responsible as in you need to fix this. We're claiming that you're responsible in the sense that you're part of the cause (or, in the language of Nagarjuna the "dominant condition" -http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/307/nagarlec.htm http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/307/nagarlec.htm) of the exploitation of people in third world countries. There are many other conditions besides you, of course. The most important goal is to deeply realize your position and relation to other people - how you act after you realize this is up to you/your emotional makeup/your virtues/etc. My claim is that because of the complicating factors (visibility and ineffectiveness) inherent in this situation you aren't able to fully understand this relationship.