4 ms·

> It isn't racist or classist to hate meth smoke blown in your face Cases of crime on public transit are a symptom of the lack of investment in them.

deepdriver 4y ago
Lack of investment in metro cops, maybe. By every other metric, American mass transit costs more and underperforms compared to European and Asian systems: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-26/the-u-s-gets-less-subway-for-its-money-than-its-peers https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-26/the-u-s-g...
- autoexec 4y ago
  Just like with healthcare and internet service, America often pays a lot more while getting a lot less. Just because America paid more for its mass transit doesn't mean they were better designed, more pleasant to ride on, or that those system are well maintained. It could also mean things like our public transportation had to cover more ground, that unique challenges in geography increased expenses, that politicians were wasting tax payer money in exchange for kickbacks and favors (no-bid contracts), or companies were simply overcharging Americans for the work. Real, meaningful investment in infrastructure and improvements to the environments people spend their time in can do a hell of a lot more to prevent crime than cops do. There is a lot of research to support this. I don't doubt that if we invested more in making our mass transit systems better and more enjoyable to use crime rates would drop. Here's a start if you want more information on the impacts of our environments on crime: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hKWLY1lZrs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hKWLY1lZrs https://thephiladelphiacitizen.org/cut-philly-shootings-93-percent/ https://thephiladelphiacitizen.org/cut-philly-shootings-93-p... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUAuuJ-hGPI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUAuuJ-hGPI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zktWPAZ6Es https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zktWPAZ6Es https://www.manhattan-institute.org/cleaning-up-vacant-lots-can-curb-urban-crime https://www.manhattan-institute.org/cleaning-up-vacant-lots-...
  - deepdriver 4y ago
    Planting trees is not a serious solution to gun violence or mass transit safety. The correlation between increased, properly-utilized police presence and a decrease in crime is one of the most well-researched, replicable, and best-understood conclusions of social science.
    - autoexec 4y ago
      > Planting trees is not a serious solution to gun violence or mass transit safety. again, lots of research would disagree with you. It absolutely does work. On the other hand, more and more cops doesn't always do the job. (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/08/us/police-crime.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/08/us/police-crime.html) I've been on mass transit in a few countries now, and I saw more police presence in the US than anywhere else, but it never made me feel any safer and somehow other countries with better, cleaner, public transit systems don't have the kinds of crime problems the US has. You want enough police around so that they can respond when there is a problem, but not so much that the environment becomes oppressive. I'd rather reduce crime by improving the public transpiration system and surrounding neighborhoods than waste tax payer money on having cops sitting around all day on trains and subway cars.
      - BitwiseFool 4y ago
        I sincerely wonder what mechanism makes planting trees reduce crime more effectively than increased policing. If true, that lends credence to Broken Windows Theory, no?
        krallja 4y ago
        some plausible theories: * policing is broken, investing in communities works better than destroying communities via mass incarceration and the criminalization of existence. * trees provide shade, lowering air temperature. hot people act crazier. * being around nature (even urban nature) improves mental health, and increases peoples’ sense of well-being, making them less likely to do crimes.
- stuaxo 4y ago
  I hardly ever see police on trains in the UK. Sometimes at stations, sure - but hardly eve on trains and it's generally alright (other problems notwithstanding - such as how expensive it is).
philwelch 4y ago
No, they're a symptom of lack of investment in curbing crime and other antisocial behavior.

deepdriver 4y ago

Lack of investment in metro cops, maybe. By every other metric, American mass transit costs more and underperforms compared to European and Asian systems: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-26/the-u-s-gets-less-subway-for-its-money-than-its-peers https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-26/the-u-s-g...

autoexec 4y ago
Just like with healthcare and internet service, America often pays a lot more while getting a lot less. Just because America paid more for its mass transit doesn't mean they were better designed, more pleasant to ride on, or that those system are well maintained. It could also mean things like our public transportation had to cover more ground, that unique challenges in geography increased expenses, that politicians were wasting tax payer money in exchange for kickbacks and favors (no-bid contracts), or companies were simply overcharging Americans for the work. Real, meaningful investment in infrastructure and improvements to the environments people spend their time in can do a hell of a lot more to prevent crime than cops do. There is a lot of research to support this. I don't doubt that if we invested more in making our mass transit systems better and more enjoyable to use crime rates would drop. Here's a start if you want more information on the impacts of our environments on crime: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hKWLY1lZrs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hKWLY1lZrs https://thephiladelphiacitizen.org/cut-philly-shootings-93-percent/ https://thephiladelphiacitizen.org/cut-philly-shootings-93-p... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUAuuJ-hGPI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUAuuJ-hGPI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zktWPAZ6Es https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zktWPAZ6Es https://www.manhattan-institute.org/cleaning-up-vacant-lots-can-curb-urban-crime https://www.manhattan-institute.org/cleaning-up-vacant-lots-...
- deepdriver 4y ago
  Planting trees is not a serious solution to gun violence or mass transit safety. The correlation between increased, properly-utilized police presence and a decrease in crime is one of the most well-researched, replicable, and best-understood conclusions of social science.
  - autoexec 4y ago
    > Planting trees is not a serious solution to gun violence or mass transit safety. again, lots of research would disagree with you. It absolutely does work. On the other hand, more and more cops doesn't always do the job. (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/08/us/police-crime.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/08/us/police-crime.html) I've been on mass transit in a few countries now, and I saw more police presence in the US than anywhere else, but it never made me feel any safer and somehow other countries with better, cleaner, public transit systems don't have the kinds of crime problems the US has. You want enough police around so that they can respond when there is a problem, but not so much that the environment becomes oppressive. I'd rather reduce crime by improving the public transpiration system and surrounding neighborhoods than waste tax payer money on having cops sitting around all day on trains and subway cars.
    - BitwiseFool 4y ago
      I sincerely wonder what mechanism makes planting trees reduce crime more effectively than increased policing. If true, that lends credence to Broken Windows Theory, no?
      - krallja 4y ago
        some plausible theories: * policing is broken, investing in communities works better than destroying communities via mass incarceration and the criminalization of existence. * trees provide shade, lowering air temperature. hot people act crazier. * being around nature (even urban nature) improves mental health, and increases peoples’ sense of well-being, making them less likely to do crimes.
stuaxo 4y ago
I hardly ever see police on trains in the UK. Sometimes at stations, sure - but hardly eve on trains and it's generally alright (other problems notwithstanding - such as how expensive it is).

philwelch 4y ago

No, they're a symptom of lack of investment in curbing crime and other antisocial behavior.