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Americans Who Can’t Afford Homes Are Moving to Europe Instead

Arubis 4y ago
As someone interested in becoming part of this "problem", does anyone know if there's been movement on the tax structure challenges for non-EU nationals https://rebase.co/portugal https://rebase.co/portugal refers to? I'm basically waiting for that to clear up before forking over cash to get things moving.
garyclarke27 4y ago
I moved to Cascais near Lisbon from the UK 5 years ago. It find it remarkable how many Americans I have met, that have moved here recently, especially from California. They all seem to be happy with their decision.
- shankr 4y ago
  I mean it's just cost arbitrage for all of these Americans. Soon enough, it's already happening, they will be out-pricing each other. They are willing to pay rents which would be average monthly salary in Lisbon. The annoying aspect of this is that Americans with their higher purchasing power sell the narrative that Europe is cheap. It's only cheap if you are making American salaries. For locals and large number of Europeans, it's far from cheap.
jbirer 4y ago
As an European, I dread this. Americans are not the best negotiators and some even seem to be OK with being overcharged, raising prices of all sorts up. At the same time, I myself am planning to move to Asia because it's getting expensive here. Good luck.
- rahimnathwani 4y ago
  "Americans are not the best negotiators" There are 300m Americans. They vary widely in their approach to negotiation. Some of the best books about negotiation are by Americans.
  - t6jvcereio 4y ago
    This is one way to spot a small minded European. "Americans are X", "Americans do Y"....
  - cko 4y ago
    I think what they're trying to say is "people who have high purchasing power get a bit excited by the relatively low prices and don't bother to negotiate." Though I think it's less of negotiation skill and more of unfamiliarity with the market. This gets fixed quickly one year in, in my experience. When I first moved from the US to Romania, I was offered a studio apartment for 300 euro a month. I thought it was super cheap and signed immediately. Little did I know I overpaid by a lot. This hurts the locals, who start getting priced out of the market.
- sschueller 4y ago
  I just hope these aren't the same America's that voted to get their country/state into such a situation. Although I see way more Europeans adoring the American "freedoms" and trying to turn Europe more American.
  - injb 4y ago
    Could you elaborate on how American "freedom" has led to a housing crisis there? Is this situation correlated with an increase in whatever you are calling "freedom"?
    - harambae 4y ago
      The areas most severely overpriced in America (university education, medical care, housing) actually have massive government involvement, and in my opinion that's not a coincidence. Of course there's legitimate reasons and benefits for some of that involvement, but maybe the pendulum needs to swing back a bit.
      - housedrafta 4y ago
        The European countries with good healthcare and education actually have their governments play a central role. How do you think Germans afford university? It's the type of government involvement you take issue with.
    - sschueller 4y ago
      By "freedom" I mean the lack of government regulations and controls allowing companies to "freely" abuse workers etc. Same goes for banks not being held accountable for bad deals and knowing they are too big to fail. Or that a large company that has committed a crime can opt for deferred prosecution (because it would hurt too many people if they were held accountable) only to have the whole thing dismissed years later or fined a tiny fine.
  - Arubis 4y ago
    Many of us are the Americans that have been desperately trying to vote our country out of this situation for our adult lives, and are tired.
- injb 4y ago
  Suppose for the sake of argument that Americans were no better or worse at negotiating that anyone else. What do you expect would happen to the prices then, with the current influx of Americans?
- rini17 4y ago
  Most of them will likely end up in few hotspots causing gentrification there, but there will be plenty of fine places left. Europe isn't _that_ small.
- more_corn 4y ago
  As an Asian I dread this. Europeans are not the best negotiators and seem to be ok with being overcharged, raising prices of all sorts. :-p
  - rasz 4y ago
    you forgot > I myself am planning to move to Africa because it's getting expensive here. Good luck.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - jbirer 4y ago
    I laughed, but as a Turk, I am a hardcore negotiator and most locals hate me, you will be OK I think.
abdabab 4y ago
https://archive.ph/hljO0 https://archive.ph/hljO0

As someone interested in becoming part of this "problem", does anyone know if there's been movement on the tax structure challenges for non-EU nationals https://rebase.co/portugal https://rebase.co/portugal refers to? I'm basically waiting for that to clear up before forking over cash to get things moving.

garyclarke27 4y ago

I moved to Cascais near Lisbon from the UK 5 years ago. It find it remarkable how many Americans I have met, that have moved here recently, especially from California. They all seem to be happy with their decision.

shankr 4y ago
I mean it's just cost arbitrage for all of these Americans. Soon enough, it's already happening, they will be out-pricing each other. They are willing to pay rents which would be average monthly salary in Lisbon. The annoying aspect of this is that Americans with their higher purchasing power sell the narrative that Europe is cheap. It's only cheap if you are making American salaries. For locals and large number of Europeans, it's far from cheap.

jbirer 4y ago

As an European, I dread this. Americans are not the best negotiators and some even seem to be OK with being overcharged, raising prices of all sorts up. At the same time, I myself am planning to move to Asia because it's getting expensive here. Good luck.

rahimnathwani 4y ago
"Americans are not the best negotiators" There are 300m Americans. They vary widely in their approach to negotiation. Some of the best books about negotiation are by Americans.
- t6jvcereio 4y ago
  This is one way to spot a small minded European. "Americans are X", "Americans do Y"....
- cko 4y ago
  I think what they're trying to say is "people who have high purchasing power get a bit excited by the relatively low prices and don't bother to negotiate." Though I think it's less of negotiation skill and more of unfamiliarity with the market. This gets fixed quickly one year in, in my experience. When I first moved from the US to Romania, I was offered a studio apartment for 300 euro a month. I thought it was super cheap and signed immediately. Little did I know I overpaid by a lot. This hurts the locals, who start getting priced out of the market.
sschueller 4y ago
I just hope these aren't the same America's that voted to get their country/state into such a situation. Although I see way more Europeans adoring the American "freedoms" and trying to turn Europe more American.
- injb 4y ago
  Could you elaborate on how American "freedom" has led to a housing crisis there? Is this situation correlated with an increase in whatever you are calling "freedom"?
  - harambae 4y ago
    The areas most severely overpriced in America (university education, medical care, housing) actually have massive government involvement, and in my opinion that's not a coincidence. Of course there's legitimate reasons and benefits for some of that involvement, but maybe the pendulum needs to swing back a bit.
    - housedrafta 4y ago
      The European countries with good healthcare and education actually have their governments play a central role. How do you think Germans afford university? It's the type of government involvement you take issue with.
  - sschueller 4y ago
    By "freedom" I mean the lack of government regulations and controls allowing companies to "freely" abuse workers etc. Same goes for banks not being held accountable for bad deals and knowing they are too big to fail. Or that a large company that has committed a crime can opt for deferred prosecution (because it would hurt too many people if they were held accountable) only to have the whole thing dismissed years later or fined a tiny fine.
- Arubis 4y ago
  Many of us are the Americans that have been desperately trying to vote our country out of this situation for our adult lives, and are tired.
injb 4y ago
Suppose for the sake of argument that Americans were no better or worse at negotiating that anyone else. What do you expect would happen to the prices then, with the current influx of Americans?
rini17 4y ago
Most of them will likely end up in few hotspots causing gentrification there, but there will be plenty of fine places left. Europe isn't _that_ small.
more_corn 4y ago
As an Asian I dread this. Europeans are not the best negotiators and seem to be ok with being overcharged, raising prices of all sorts. :-p
- rasz 4y ago
  you forgot > I myself am planning to move to Africa because it's getting expensive here. Good luck.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- jbirer 4y ago
  I laughed, but as a Turk, I am a hardcore negotiator and most locals hate me, you will be OK I think.

abdabab 4y ago

https://archive.ph/hljO0 https://archive.ph/hljO0