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GM also had the electric EV-1 car in the mid-90s, then crushed nearly all of them, and didn't have another electric car again until Tesla was a thing. Like a l

by smm11 4y ago

GM also had the electric EV-1 car in the mid-90s, then crushed nearly all of them, and didn't have another electric car again until Tesla was a thing. Like a lot of people and companies any more, they'd prefer it was 1952 every day forever.

leobg 4y ago
Actually one of the reasons Tesla got started. Elon has often mentioned the EV1 “death marches” as having convinced him that electric cars can be a superior product that customers will love.
cronix 4y ago
Look at the timeline for Lithium-Ion batteries for the reason and where they were in the 1990's. Using very heavy lead acid batteries that you could only really use the top 50% of capacity were not economical, which is mostly what they had back then. It was practical in a low speed golf cart that had very few daily miles driven and spent most of its time plugged in and charging, but not much bigger. They also couldn't deliver very high amps compared with what the newer cathodes in LIon and LiFePO4 batteries can generate. Also, none of these technologies were being built at scale in the 90's - they were still mostly inventing the tech and changing rapidly between '90 and 2010ish. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_lithium-ion_battery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_lithium-ion_bat...
- panick21_ 4y ago
  There were alternative options between Li and lead acid. And even so, the car was liked by the people, pushing the technology from there would have been viable in a number of markets.
google234123 4y ago
BTW, I think all prototype cars have to be crushed eventually. It isn't legal to sell them.
- bonestamp2 4y ago
  They don't have to be crushed per se, but yes... that is what is routinely done with prototypes and pilots and yes they can't be sold (and the OEM wouldn't want to sell them due to some other laws that would come into play if they did). Pilots are the vehicles that come off the line while the line is being developed or retooled for a new model. Some of them go back to engineering for various reasons, some go to suppliers, but most of those eventually get crushed too.
bonestamp2 4y ago
I worked at GM during the EV-1 timeframe. Although some of the people who leased an EV-1 wanted to keep their car, the general economics of mass producing cars is that you need about 50,000 people per year that want to buy a specific car model to break even. At that time, a time of all time low gas prices, there weren't 50k people/year who wanted an EV. Too few people saw the benefits and the environmental need at that time. Maybe GM could have done a better job trying to sell it. But, it's not like they didn't try, they even built a huge ride at EPCOT to promote it. It's unfortunate that it wasn't a success, but GM didn't have some secret agreement with the oil companies (they sued them a couple years later). GM killed the EV-1 because they couldn't make money selling it. The EV game is hard. Tesla has been at it almost 20 years and they just became profitable a couple years ago. GM wouldn't sell the left over EV-1s because if they sold them, they would be legally required to stock parts for years to come, which doesn't make sense when you only have a couple hundred cars. The EV-1 was not a conspiracy.

by smm11 4y ago

leobg 4y ago

Actually one of the reasons Tesla got started. Elon has often mentioned the EV1 “death marches” as having convinced him that electric cars can be a superior product that customers will love.

cronix 4y ago

Look at the timeline for Lithium-Ion batteries for the reason and where they were in the 1990's. Using very heavy lead acid batteries that you could only really use the top 50% of capacity were not economical, which is mostly what they had back then. It was practical in a low speed golf cart that had very few daily miles driven and spent most of its time plugged in and charging, but not much bigger. They also couldn't deliver very high amps compared with what the newer cathodes in LIon and LiFePO4 batteries can generate. Also, none of these technologies were being built at scale in the 90's - they were still mostly inventing the tech and changing rapidly between '90 and 2010ish. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_lithium-ion_battery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_lithium-ion_bat...

panick21_ 4y ago
There were alternative options between Li and lead acid. And even so, the car was liked by the people, pushing the technology from there would have been viable in a number of markets.

google234123 4y ago

BTW, I think all prototype cars have to be crushed eventually. It isn't legal to sell them.

bonestamp2 4y ago
They don't have to be crushed per se, but yes... that is what is routinely done with prototypes and pilots and yes they can't be sold (and the OEM wouldn't want to sell them due to some other laws that would come into play if they did). Pilots are the vehicles that come off the line while the line is being developed or retooled for a new model. Some of them go back to engineering for various reasons, some go to suppliers, but most of those eventually get crushed too.

bonestamp2 4y ago

I worked at GM during the EV-1 timeframe. Although some of the people who leased an EV-1 wanted to keep their car, the general economics of mass producing cars is that you need about 50,000 people per year that want to buy a specific car model to break even. At that time, a time of all time low gas prices, there weren't 50k people/year who wanted an EV. Too few people saw the benefits and the environmental need at that time. Maybe GM could have done a better job trying to sell it. But, it's not like they didn't try, they even built a huge ride at EPCOT to promote it. It's unfortunate that it wasn't a success, but GM didn't have some secret agreement with the oil companies (they sued them a couple years later). GM killed the EV-1 because they couldn't make money selling it. The EV game is hard. Tesla has been at it almost 20 years and they just became profitable a couple years ago. GM wouldn't sell the left over EV-1s because if they sold them, they would be legally required to stock parts for years to come, which doesn't make sense when you only have a couple hundred cars. The EV-1 was not a conspiracy.