4 ms·

> It also starts to bother me quite a bit when we go from treating everyone equal before the law to creating certain requirements based on other factors. This

by glogla 4y ago

> It also starts to bother me quite a bit when we go from treating everyone equal before the law to creating certain requirements based on other factors. This is completely normal for laws. Your kitchen at home doesn't have to follow the same rules as restaurant kitchen, for example. You as a driver of your personal car don't have to go through the same process and registration as truck drivers do. Small stalls selling things have different rules than big stores. And so on.

toyg 4y ago
I reckon this particular objection actually shows the forma mentis of developers. It seems like a lot of them feel like they are temporarily-embarrassed megacorps, worrying about things that will never really apply to them.
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  Exactly. Worrying about your company "suddenly" crossing the €75 billion market cap threshold... that's the sort of problem most people would give an arm and a leg to have.
- charcircuit 4y ago
  It's possible to have an opinion on laws that you don't effect oneself. If a country had a law that if a company reaches $1 billion lifetime revenue that it gets repossessed by the state I can apply my belief that stealing is bad and be against that law despite it likely never affecting me.
  - fabianhjr 4y ago
    Requiring monopolistic platform megacorps to compete is similar to expropriating them. Got it.
    - charcircuit 4y ago
      I was using an extreme example to illustrate my point more clearly.
  - toyg 4y ago
    > It's possible to have an opinion on laws that you don't effect oneself. Sure, and it's possible to heavily discount your opinion when compared to the hundreds of opinions of experts in antitrust law that helped shaping this legislation. This would be less the case, maybe, if this legislation actually targeted you, so your insight would be relevant; but the fact is that it doesn't.
    - charcircuit 4y ago
      Democratic societies don't decide laws based off what "experts" think is right, but instead based off what the entire populace thinks. If I was European my opinion should matter just as much as one these "experts."
      - wasmitnetzen 4y ago
        Europe is, for the most part, a representative democracy, not a direct democracy. We specifically elect experts to write laws, and not have the general populace decide it.
- ROTMetro 4y ago
  I think it's more having the mindset to think externally to yourself and put yourself into users 'usecases', not personal self interest.
  - hnbad 4y ago
    Yeah, no. Neither systems thinking nor empathy lead to the position that megacorps should be treated exactly the same way as smaller companies. If anything, the exact opposite is the case.
- mortenjorck 4y ago
  > temporarily-embarrassed megacorps This is a very perceptive extension of the famous Steinbeck quote. The sentiment is certainly not limited to the blue-collar labor class of which the original referred.
pavlov 4y ago
Also, equality principles that apply to actual persons don’t necessarily make sense if applied to corporations. A person, even if very rich, has a limited lifetime and a limited amount of hours in a day to spend. A corporation is immortal and can have 100,000 people simultaneously working on something. It’s bizarre if the law pretends that such an entity is just another human.
ekianjo 4y ago
Its because your kitchen at home is not a business.
- ethbr0 4y ago
  I'd hazard it's more specifically because your kitchen at home has a lower ceiling of harm. If you start a grease fire, you burn down your house. If you serve meat that's been stored at room temperature, you make your family and some friends sick. But a commercial kitchen's potential for harm is much higher in many ways.
oaiey 4y ago
This is even true for something like medical devices. The FDA is really soft with startups and a pain in the ass once you grew some years. And it makes sense. Let the small business experiment a bit, give them a bit leeway and once they grew to a certain size, expect that they think about the bigger picture. Which our dear monopolists only do in their favor.

by glogla 4y ago

toyg 4y ago

I reckon this particular objection actually shows the forma mentis of developers. It seems like a lot of them feel like they are temporarily-embarrassed megacorps, worrying about things that will never really apply to them.

MichaelCollins 4y ago
Exactly. Worrying about your company "suddenly" crossing the €75 billion market cap threshold... that's the sort of problem most people would give an arm and a leg to have.
charcircuit 4y ago
It's possible to have an opinion on laws that you don't effect oneself. If a country had a law that if a company reaches $1 billion lifetime revenue that it gets repossessed by the state I can apply my belief that stealing is bad and be against that law despite it likely never affecting me.
- fabianhjr 4y ago
  Requiring monopolistic platform megacorps to compete is similar to expropriating them. Got it.
  - charcircuit 4y ago
    I was using an extreme example to illustrate my point more clearly.
- toyg 4y ago
  > It's possible to have an opinion on laws that you don't effect oneself. Sure, and it's possible to heavily discount your opinion when compared to the hundreds of opinions of experts in antitrust law that helped shaping this legislation. This would be less the case, maybe, if this legislation actually targeted you, so your insight would be relevant; but the fact is that it doesn't.
  - charcircuit 4y ago
    Democratic societies don't decide laws based off what "experts" think is right, but instead based off what the entire populace thinks. If I was European my opinion should matter just as much as one these "experts."
    - wasmitnetzen 4y ago
      Europe is, for the most part, a representative democracy, not a direct democracy. We specifically elect experts to write laws, and not have the general populace decide it.
ROTMetro 4y ago
I think it's more having the mindset to think externally to yourself and put yourself into users 'usecases', not personal self interest.
- hnbad 4y ago
  Yeah, no. Neither systems thinking nor empathy lead to the position that megacorps should be treated exactly the same way as smaller companies. If anything, the exact opposite is the case.
mortenjorck 4y ago
> temporarily-embarrassed megacorps This is a very perceptive extension of the famous Steinbeck quote. The sentiment is certainly not limited to the blue-collar labor class of which the original referred.

pavlov 4y ago

Also, equality principles that apply to actual persons don’t necessarily make sense if applied to corporations. A person, even if very rich, has a limited lifetime and a limited amount of hours in a day to spend. A corporation is immortal and can have 100,000 people simultaneously working on something. It’s bizarre if the law pretends that such an entity is just another human.

ekianjo 4y ago

Its because your kitchen at home is not a business.

ethbr0 4y ago
I'd hazard it's more specifically because your kitchen at home has a lower ceiling of harm. If you start a grease fire, you burn down your house. If you serve meat that's been stored at room temperature, you make your family and some friends sick. But a commercial kitchen's potential for harm is much higher in many ways.

oaiey 4y ago

This is even true for something like medical devices. The FDA is really soft with startups and a pain in the ass once you grew some years. And it makes sense. Let the small business experiment a bit, give them a bit leeway and once they grew to a certain size, expect that they think about the bigger picture. Which our dear monopolists only do in their favor.