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Ask black and queer people how golden the 50's were. Or women. It was a culture that "valued" long-term relationships to the extent that they were Ok with the

Ask black and queer people how golden the 50's were. Or women. It was a culture that "valued" long-term relationships to the extent that they were Ok with the relationship completely destroying individuals. And it had an implicit nod to at least men seeking release value outside the relationship, as long as it was discreet. It had a large amount of mind-alterning drugs - alcohol. Barbiturates. Valium. The latter two prescribed excessively if you deviated in any way from the norm. It was OK with performing lobotomies on people to have them perform within norm. There were almost no news except what was officially approved. You'd mostly lose contact with friends who moved more than a few miles away - long distance contact through mail is hard. Housework was hard manual labor, because there were little affordable tools. (They were just starting to become normal). In terms of performing arts, it was a wasteland because the vast majority of cities didn't have the size to support art scenes. I could go on. But what I'd really like to say is: Both the picture you paint, and the one I paint, are likely overemphasizing certain characteristics. In that, we generalize way too much. Happiness is individual, not cultural. Culture is tribal, not general. And more importantly, culture is what we make of it - and so imagining where to go from here very much becomes "where do you want it to go, and what can you do about that"

briga 4y ago
Like I said, there were still issues back then. You're right, happiness is individual, not cultural. But one culture can be happier, on average, than another. And if I'm not just romanticizing the past it does genuinely seem like people were happier back then. The economy was booming. The United Nations seemed to promise global peace. We were taking our first steps into space. It seemed like there was a whole world of possibilities back then, not just economically but in the arts as well.
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  > Ask black and queer people how golden the 50's were. Or women. Or people outside of North America. Really, the main cause for the '50s seeming like a golden age was that the U.S., protected by two oceans with its massive industrial capacity and population, emerged from WWII as accidental global hegemon. So it was easy to be optimistic when not only did America win the war, it was very prosperous and on its way to running the world. A decade after the Great Depression, American capital was helping to rebuild old Europe. All of the domestic cultural changes were just second order effects from this situation.
- groby_b 4y ago
  For the arts, the possibilities have exploded. You can shoot an entire movie for budgets that are in the budget of individuals/small groups. You can find an audience for your art orders of magnitude bigger than anything you could find then. Commercially, you can start high tech businesses in your garage that weren't even dreamt of in the 50s. As for space, we're currently landing rockets on ships. We're actively planning Mars exploration. The UN still promises global peace. The second half of the 50s had much worse nuclear saber rattling than anything we see right now. The Korean war very much was a high risk of US and USSR clashing directly. I really think you romanticize the 50s. (I strongly encourage talking to people who lived through the 50s, especially minority groups) Again, I really want to say "you're completely wrong" here - in terms of GDP growth, the 50s were great. In terms of sharing that growth (as opposed to concentrating wealth in a small group), they were great. BOth of these only apply to white men/families, though. And I deliberately exaggerate the picture in the other direction to show how much this is a question of framing. And your right, one culture can be happier than another. We know which cultures are happy, and we have a fairly good idea why they are happier. It's on us to change our culture if we want that happiness. You see this as a dark picture. I see it as a call to action, and the potential to make the world so much better. I don't know what the chances of success are, but I can promise you that seeing the future as malleable and culture as an ongoing project makes life better than focusing exclusively on the darkness.
  - briga 4y ago
    Ok you're right. I just think about how empires like Rome that collapsed in on themselves at the height of their power and can't help but see parallels with what is happening now. An affluent apathetic population that just let things slide back into chaos. But I suppose that's hardly an original observation
deleted 4y ago
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briga 4y ago

Like I said, there were still issues back then. You're right, happiness is individual, not cultural. But one culture can be happier, on average, than another. And if I'm not just romanticizing the past it does genuinely seem like people were happier back then. The economy was booming. The United Nations seemed to promise global peace. We were taking our first steps into space. It seemed like there was a whole world of possibilities back then, not just economically but in the arts as well.

Apocryphon 4y ago
> Ask black and queer people how golden the 50's were. Or women. Or people outside of North America. Really, the main cause for the '50s seeming like a golden age was that the U.S., protected by two oceans with its massive industrial capacity and population, emerged from WWII as accidental global hegemon. So it was easy to be optimistic when not only did America win the war, it was very prosperous and on its way to running the world. A decade after the Great Depression, American capital was helping to rebuild old Europe. All of the domestic cultural changes were just second order effects from this situation.
groby_b 4y ago
For the arts, the possibilities have exploded. You can shoot an entire movie for budgets that are in the budget of individuals/small groups. You can find an audience for your art orders of magnitude bigger than anything you could find then. Commercially, you can start high tech businesses in your garage that weren't even dreamt of in the 50s. As for space, we're currently landing rockets on ships. We're actively planning Mars exploration. The UN still promises global peace. The second half of the 50s had much worse nuclear saber rattling than anything we see right now. The Korean war very much was a high risk of US and USSR clashing directly. I really think you romanticize the 50s. (I strongly encourage talking to people who lived through the 50s, especially minority groups) Again, I really want to say "you're completely wrong" here - in terms of GDP growth, the 50s were great. In terms of sharing that growth (as opposed to concentrating wealth in a small group), they were great. BOth of these only apply to white men/families, though. And I deliberately exaggerate the picture in the other direction to show how much this is a question of framing. And your right, one culture can be happier than another. We know which cultures are happy, and we have a fairly good idea why they are happier. It's on us to change our culture if we want that happiness. You see this as a dark picture. I see it as a call to action, and the potential to make the world so much better. I don't know what the chances of success are, but I can promise you that seeing the future as malleable and culture as an ongoing project makes life better than focusing exclusively on the darkness.
- briga 4y ago
  Ok you're right. I just think about how empires like Rome that collapsed in on themselves at the height of their power and can't help but see parallels with what is happening now. An affluent apathetic population that just let things slide back into chaos. But I suppose that's hardly an original observation

deleted 4y ago

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