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Software engineers are mostly aware of this. There is just little market demand for this level of robustness.

by fisf 4y ago

ruined 4y ago
there was no market demand for building codes, either. that's why they're laws
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  bbut but mah free market gave us fire escapes attached to every building in new york, and they were made of wood!
  - twunde 4y ago
    I know you're being sarcastic, but this reminded me of Tanya Reilly's _great_ talk "The history of fire escapes: How to fail". There's a recording up at https://www.infoq.com/presentations/history-fire-escapes-resilience/ https://www.infoq.com/presentations/history-fire-escapes-res...
- sebzim4500 4y ago
  Countries that pass laws making it 10x more difficult to develop software will not survive the next few decades.
TheCapn 4y ago
Engineering Code of Ethics dictate that safety of public and environment is paramount. I know that's true for my P.Eng governing body; it is written into our bylaws. I'm sure its the same for most others as well. I think until Software Engineering catches up in this regard with traditional Engineering disciplines we'll continue to see issues arise from the software realm. As much as the self-titled "Engineers" proclaim it, there's more to engineering than design and production.
- kelnos 4y ago
  I've always been uncomfortable calling myself a "software engineer" for this reason, and usually refer to myself as a "software developer". Most of the job listings I see at various companies use "engineer" though, and so my official title ends up being "engineer", so that's what I end up putting on my resume. (Though I guess I don't really need to do that; I could put whatever I want.)
  - TheCapn 4y ago
    I am a Software Engineer. I'm licensed by our provincial body and have my P.Eng. and yeah, I still agree with you. I've been asked why I got my P.Eng as it does nothing for me career wise, but I always have the hope that we move towards a profession that does utilize engineers with proper accreditation and responsibilities where appropriate. I work in Industrial Controls and what my job has me doing does have safety concerns. We fired a student at one point working for us because his attitude towards the work was lackluster and lazy. I see it often enough in programs I'm asked to pick up and fix too. If Software Engineering wants respect, the profession needs to accept that we're going to piss off a lot of Developers & Architects using the title incorrectly. We still need to develop the proper rigor to take Engineering as a discipline seriously, but we also don't need to apply "Engineers" to every job.

Software engineers are mostly aware of this. There is just little market demand for this level of robustness.

by fisf 4y ago

Software engineers are mostly aware of this. There is just little market demand for this level of robustness.

ruined 4y ago

there was no market demand for building codes, either. that's why they're laws

ClumsyPilot 4y ago
bbut but mah free market gave us fire escapes attached to every building in new york, and they were made of wood!
- twunde 4y ago
  I know you're being sarcastic, but this reminded me of Tanya Reilly's _great_ talk "The history of fire escapes: How to fail". There's a recording up at https://www.infoq.com/presentations/history-fire-escapes-resilience/ https://www.infoq.com/presentations/history-fire-escapes-res...
sebzim4500 4y ago
Countries that pass laws making it 10x more difficult to develop software will not survive the next few decades.

TheCapn 4y ago

Engineering Code of Ethics dictate that safety of public and environment is paramount. I know that's true for my P.Eng governing body; it is written into our bylaws. I'm sure its the same for most others as well. I think until Software Engineering catches up in this regard with traditional Engineering disciplines we'll continue to see issues arise from the software realm. As much as the self-titled "Engineers" proclaim it, there's more to engineering than design and production.

kelnos 4y ago
I've always been uncomfortable calling myself a "software engineer" for this reason, and usually refer to myself as a "software developer". Most of the job listings I see at various companies use "engineer" though, and so my official title ends up being "engineer", so that's what I end up putting on my resume. (Though I guess I don't really need to do that; I could put whatever I want.)
- TheCapn 4y ago
  I am a Software Engineer. I'm licensed by our provincial body and have my P.Eng. and yeah, I still agree with you. I've been asked why I got my P.Eng as it does nothing for me career wise, but I always have the hope that we move towards a profession that does utilize engineers with proper accreditation and responsibilities where appropriate. I work in Industrial Controls and what my job has me doing does have safety concerns. We fired a student at one point working for us because his attitude towards the work was lackluster and lazy. I see it often enough in programs I'm asked to pick up and fix too. If Software Engineering wants respect, the profession needs to accept that we're going to piss off a lot of Developers & Architects using the title incorrectly. We still need to develop the proper rigor to take Engineering as a discipline seriously, but we also don't need to apply "Engineers" to every job.