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Once you're rich enough, you become concerned with protecting that wealth and your own well-being. You want transparency from your government, rule of law (in a

Once you're rich enough, you become concerned with protecting that wealth and your own well-being. You want transparency from your government, rule of law (in a transparent, predictable manner) and political stability. Those are not strong points in China these days.

Volpe 15y ago
Political stability is not a strong point in china?
- tomkarlo 15y ago
  On the order of a lifetime (50-60 years)? No. Especially given that you have an incumbent political party that is (at least in name), still Communist and committed to the equitable distribution of wealth across the population. China has a lot of internal tensions, not the least of which is that as people become more affluent, they start to want greater transparency from the government, greater fairness, and more independence. All of those desires put them in conflict with the current regime. The party may be able to keep things under control, but I don't think there's any question that it's already grappling to maintain order via censorship, suppression of dissent, etc.
  - Volpe 15y ago
    I'm not convinced it is "grappling to maintain order". It really doesn't operate that different from the U.S: - censorship (like wikileaks) - Suppression of dissent (like the 'Occupy movement' is being suppressed). Governments (regardless of ideology) try to avoid dissent, as it's damaging to those in power...
    - Selvik 15y ago
      You seem completely clueless. Chinese dissidents are "disappeared" for far less than what Assange has done. Tianmen protesters where slaughtered.
    - tomkarlo 15y ago
      When was the last time you worried about going to prison before you posted a tweet?
      - Volpe 15y ago
        I'm pretty sure Julian Assange is facing this exact problem. When you challenge authority... the results are predictable (regardless of the ideology behind the authority). Also note: Most chinese (i'd say) don't worry about this. So the point is a little over dramatic.
        tomkarlo 15y ago
        From two weeks ago: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/27/world/asia/china-imposes-new-limits-on-entertainment-and-bloggers.html?scp=7&sq=china%20twitter&st=cse http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/27/world/asia/china-imposes-n...
    - Volpe 15y ago
      What are the down votes for? Some one care to enlighten me how the censorship of wikileaks is any different to the great fire wall? (Slightly different scale, but they both illustrate censorship). Or the suppression the of the Occupy Movement is different from the concept of "suppression of dissent". That is the forcible removal of people with views the government doesn't want to hear. I haven't even mention the Patriot Act and how it has been exploited... Rocks and glasshouses...
      - philwelch 15y ago
        Some cities have worse police departments than others, but I haven't seen any of the Occupy protests assaulted with tanks.
        Volpe 15y ago
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots Came pretty close to tanks...
        Selvik 15y ago
        That's not the same thing as peaceful protests by students and professionals. Noam Chomsky (!) is on the record saying the US is a very free country. Politically, that is, by which he means the scope of permissible political action is wide not, that it's rate of success is high. He's right.
        Volpe 15y ago
        Which peaceful protest are you referring to? Tiananmen square protests (what the "Tanks" were implying) were not peaceful. They started that way, but they were not that way, when the military stepped in. There have been numerous reports that the 'trigger' moment, was a group of soldiers being isolated and threatened or attacked. I love you are saying The US is a very free country in response to the L.A riots... the irony is not missed :D
    - chrischen 15y ago
      Sure you can say that, but you can't say that all governments suppress dissent equally.
Selvik 15y ago
I think this is true. Additionally, as other commenters have mentioned, daily life in china is a bit of a health risk due to the crazy traffic, air pollution, poor food safety etc.
- tomkarlo 15y ago
  I forgot this - I have two friends who lived in Beijing for years but moved to LA when they had kids, in large part because the air pollution was so bad they said they could feel it in their throats when they woke up each morning if it was going to be a bad day. Nobody likes to feel like their they breathe is killing them each day. There was a comment (I think on Top Gear, so take it with a grain) that if you drive a new Porsche through Beijing, the air coming out the tailpipe is cleaner then the air going in the front.

Volpe 15y ago

Political stability is not a strong point in china?

tomkarlo 15y ago
On the order of a lifetime (50-60 years)? No. Especially given that you have an incumbent political party that is (at least in name), still Communist and committed to the equitable distribution of wealth across the population. China has a lot of internal tensions, not the least of which is that as people become more affluent, they start to want greater transparency from the government, greater fairness, and more independence. All of those desires put them in conflict with the current regime. The party may be able to keep things under control, but I don't think there's any question that it's already grappling to maintain order via censorship, suppression of dissent, etc.
- Volpe 15y ago
  I'm not convinced it is "grappling to maintain order". It really doesn't operate that different from the U.S: - censorship (like wikileaks) - Suppression of dissent (like the 'Occupy movement' is being suppressed). Governments (regardless of ideology) try to avoid dissent, as it's damaging to those in power...
  - Selvik 15y ago
    You seem completely clueless. Chinese dissidents are "disappeared" for far less than what Assange has done. Tianmen protesters where slaughtered.
  - tomkarlo 15y ago
    When was the last time you worried about going to prison before you posted a tweet?
    - Volpe 15y ago
      I'm pretty sure Julian Assange is facing this exact problem. When you challenge authority... the results are predictable (regardless of the ideology behind the authority). Also note: Most chinese (i'd say) don't worry about this. So the point is a little over dramatic.
      - tomkarlo 15y ago
        From two weeks ago: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/27/world/asia/china-imposes-new-limits-on-entertainment-and-bloggers.html?scp=7&sq=china%20twitter&st=cse http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/27/world/asia/china-imposes-n...
  - Volpe 15y ago
    What are the down votes for? Some one care to enlighten me how the censorship of wikileaks is any different to the great fire wall? (Slightly different scale, but they both illustrate censorship). Or the suppression the of the Occupy Movement is different from the concept of "suppression of dissent". That is the forcible removal of people with views the government doesn't want to hear. I haven't even mention the Patriot Act and how it has been exploited... Rocks and glasshouses...
    - philwelch 15y ago
      Some cities have worse police departments than others, but I haven't seen any of the Occupy protests assaulted with tanks.
      - Volpe 15y ago
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots Came pretty close to tanks...
        Selvik 15y ago
        That's not the same thing as peaceful protests by students and professionals. Noam Chomsky (!) is on the record saying the US is a very free country. Politically, that is, by which he means the scope of permissible political action is wide not, that it's rate of success is high. He's right.
        Volpe 15y ago
        Which peaceful protest are you referring to? Tiananmen square protests (what the "Tanks" were implying) were not peaceful. They started that way, but they were not that way, when the military stepped in. There have been numerous reports that the 'trigger' moment, was a group of soldiers being isolated and threatened or attacked. I love you are saying The US is a very free country in response to the L.A riots... the irony is not missed :D
  - chrischen 15y ago
    Sure you can say that, but you can't say that all governments suppress dissent equally.

Selvik 15y ago

I think this is true. Additionally, as other commenters have mentioned, daily life in china is a bit of a health risk due to the crazy traffic, air pollution, poor food safety etc.

tomkarlo 15y ago
I forgot this - I have two friends who lived in Beijing for years but moved to LA when they had kids, in large part because the air pollution was so bad they said they could feel it in their throats when they woke up each morning if it was going to be a bad day. Nobody likes to feel like their they breathe is killing them each day. There was a comment (I think on Top Gear, so take it with a grain) that if you drive a new Porsche through Beijing, the air coming out the tailpipe is cleaner then the air going in the front.