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1. Who talked about Linux? 2. Who said spam isn't a problem or that this act allows or even enforce to circumvent the strong privacy rules that the EU (not App

1. Who talked about Linux? 2. Who said spam isn't a problem or that this act allows or even enforce to circumvent the strong privacy rules that the EU (not Apple) actually guarantees for their biggest single market in the world? News flash: you can combat spam and scams while keeping open and exchangeable basic infrastructure, without any walled garden. Otherwise, following your logic Apple would need to ban access to protocols like IP instantly, as those can be used to transport spam and exchange openly information. People rather argue that the safety excuse is BS and people do not require being a Linux expert to detect spam, that they can also get over the landline or in person knocking on the door, for that one needs common sense and some not completely bad education.

nemothekid 4y ago
I don't know why you've decided to focus on confidence scams, it's like you are intentionally trying to dodge my point. >Otherwise, following your logic Apple would need to ban access to protocols like IP instantly But they _did_. The browser engine is another walled garden. HTTP is one of those "open protocols" that has been rife with spyware, but for some reasons people don't tend to cry as loudly when Apple banned third party cookies. >that they can also get over the landline or in person knocking on the door, for that one needs common sense and some not completely bad education. I enjoy looking forward to you educating people not install Instagram. I don't know why people continue to assume the bad guys are blackhats or script kiddies. The company that stands to benefit the most from this is the company that lost nearly 400 billion dollars when Apple decided to curb fingerprinting. That is 400 billion reasons they have to push you to sideload. You really think you can just tell people to exercise "common sense" against someone who stands to gain $400B? Again, to circle back to Linux, you are displaying the same kind of hubris that developers have when it comes to software. It's a refusal to have any empathy for actual users - telling people not to install Instagram from the FB App Store because it's "common sense" is asinine. FB will spend $1B convincing your doctor that the FB App Store will cure cancer; how is a normal person supposed to combat that with "common sense".
- tlamponi 4y ago
  Third party cookies are far from being required by spam or scams and that's actually an example how one can make platforms safer while keeping them open and exchangeable, as for that 3rd party cookies ain't needed at all and it's not a tech to prop up their garden's walls. > I enjoy looking forward to you educating people not install Instagram. I never said anything about not installing Instagram just like I didn't argue those people should add doors or landlines to their houses ;-) So please, just stop it with propping up and taking down all those straw mans nobody talked about! Rather, think common sense with a sexy lady offering their hot single friends to you, or some person offering you 10 million bucks as long as you can cover the small transaction fee of $1000, independent of the medium its send over (whatsapp, instagram, telegram, fb, irc, matrix, mail, ...) And w.r.t your general suggestion that all devs just don't care about their users, it's anecdotal but personally I actually care a lot about UX and to offer users the information to allow them to make the right decision, that's one of main things I look out when reviewing UI or also API (as API users, even if developers themselves, are user too) patches, and I know quite a few other devs that try to do the same, not all "hate" their users. > FB will spend $1B convincing your doctor that the FB App Store will cure cancer Besides the point that they don't, that's again a complete straw man, nobody talked about that the FB app itself is a scam or evil or whatnot, it may even be, but that's not the point of the whole EU Act and your defense of Apples walled garden mechanisms like banning other payment providers, which still can and must be vetted to be even legal in the EU, or virtually breaking sharing of your data to other apps, that they can still vet and ensure basic security on.
  - nemothekid 4y ago
    >Rather, think common sense with a sexy lady offering their hot single friends to you, or some person offering you 10 million bucks as long as you can cover the small transaction fee of $1000, independent of the medium its send over (whatsapp, instagram, telegram, fb, irc, matrix, mail, ...) >nobody talked about that the FB app itself is a scam or evil or whatnot You are continuing to miss the point. It's not a strawman if you are ignoring my concern. Instagram _is_ the concern. I don't care about confidence scams; my problem is Facebook, and the rest of adtech in general building massive databases on everyone else. The EU has been toothless in preventing this; and adtech is so entrenched that this will likely remain the case. "Opening" the platform is only good for developers, not for users. Opening the platform just means more ways for users to track me and others around me. This is not a strawman; this is literally apple's marketing on what a platform like their offers. For you to just ignore the problem that platforms like Meta propose is naive. Again I don't care about nigerian prince scams; that is not why I tell people to buy an iPhone.
bun_at_work 4y ago
> People rather argue that the safety excuse is BS and people do not require being a Linux expert to detect spam, that they can also get over the landline or in person knocking on the door, for that one needs common sense and some not completely bad education. This ignores human nature and reality. People are easily manipulated at scale, and the proof is that the scams and spam calls continue. If it was a matter of "common sense" then those things wouldn't be as prevalent as they are.

nemothekid 4y ago

I don't know why you've decided to focus on confidence scams, it's like you are intentionally trying to dodge my point. >Otherwise, following your logic Apple would need to ban access to protocols like IP instantly But they _did_. The browser engine is another walled garden. HTTP is one of those "open protocols" that has been rife with spyware, but for some reasons people don't tend to cry as loudly when Apple banned third party cookies. >that they can also get over the landline or in person knocking on the door, for that one needs common sense and some not completely bad education. I enjoy looking forward to you educating people not install Instagram. I don't know why people continue to assume the bad guys are blackhats or script kiddies. The company that stands to benefit the most from this is the company that lost nearly 400 billion dollars when Apple decided to curb fingerprinting. That is 400 billion reasons they have to push you to sideload. You really think you can just tell people to exercise "common sense" against someone who stands to gain $400B? Again, to circle back to Linux, you are displaying the same kind of hubris that developers have when it comes to software. It's a refusal to have any empathy for actual users - telling people not to install Instagram from the FB App Store because it's "common sense" is asinine. FB will spend $1B convincing your doctor that the FB App Store will cure cancer; how is a normal person supposed to combat that with "common sense".

tlamponi 4y ago
Third party cookies are far from being required by spam or scams and that's actually an example how one can make platforms safer while keeping them open and exchangeable, as for that 3rd party cookies ain't needed at all and it's not a tech to prop up their garden's walls. > I enjoy looking forward to you educating people not install Instagram. I never said anything about not installing Instagram just like I didn't argue those people should add doors or landlines to their houses ;-) So please, just stop it with propping up and taking down all those straw mans nobody talked about! Rather, think common sense with a sexy lady offering their hot single friends to you, or some person offering you 10 million bucks as long as you can cover the small transaction fee of $1000, independent of the medium its send over (whatsapp, instagram, telegram, fb, irc, matrix, mail, ...) And w.r.t your general suggestion that all devs just don't care about their users, it's anecdotal but personally I actually care a lot about UX and to offer users the information to allow them to make the right decision, that's one of main things I look out when reviewing UI or also API (as API users, even if developers themselves, are user too) patches, and I know quite a few other devs that try to do the same, not all "hate" their users. > FB will spend $1B convincing your doctor that the FB App Store will cure cancer Besides the point that they don't, that's again a complete straw man, nobody talked about that the FB app itself is a scam or evil or whatnot, it may even be, but that's not the point of the whole EU Act and your defense of Apples walled garden mechanisms like banning other payment providers, which still can and must be vetted to be even legal in the EU, or virtually breaking sharing of your data to other apps, that they can still vet and ensure basic security on.
- nemothekid 4y ago
  >Rather, think common sense with a sexy lady offering their hot single friends to you, or some person offering you 10 million bucks as long as you can cover the small transaction fee of $1000, independent of the medium its send over (whatsapp, instagram, telegram, fb, irc, matrix, mail, ...) >nobody talked about that the FB app itself is a scam or evil or whatnot You are continuing to miss the point. It's not a strawman if you are ignoring my concern. Instagram _is_ the concern. I don't care about confidence scams; my problem is Facebook, and the rest of adtech in general building massive databases on everyone else. The EU has been toothless in preventing this; and adtech is so entrenched that this will likely remain the case. "Opening" the platform is only good for developers, not for users. Opening the platform just means more ways for users to track me and others around me. This is not a strawman; this is literally apple's marketing on what a platform like their offers. For you to just ignore the problem that platforms like Meta propose is naive. Again I don't care about nigerian prince scams; that is not why I tell people to buy an iPhone.

bun_at_work 4y ago

> People rather argue that the safety excuse is BS and people do not require being a Linux expert to detect spam, that they can also get over the landline or in person knocking on the door, for that one needs common sense and some not completely bad education. This ignores human nature and reality. People are easily manipulated at scale, and the proof is that the scams and spam calls continue. If it was a matter of "common sense" then those things wouldn't be as prevalent as they are.