5 ms·

Why is the EU able to pass pro-consumer laws, but America unable to? Are big tech companies just unable to properly bribe the European Union like they do the Am

by jarbus 4y ago

Why is the EU able to pass pro-consumer laws, but America unable to? Are big tech companies just unable to properly bribe the European Union like they do the American Government?

dbrgn 4y ago
Because of institutional corruption. Lawrence Lessig has some great talks about this topic, here's one of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okfLPvBjImM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okfLPvBjImM Here's another one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxCo2bE9Gtk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxCo2bE9Gtk (Lawrence Lessig, a law professor, was one of the founders of Creative Commons. He later tried to change US copyright laws to be more consumer-friendly, but concluded that it's almost impossible to do so as long as corporate interests rule politics. He then shifted his research topics to institutional corruption in politics. He actually ran for presidency a few years ago, with funding only from the popuplation, and limited to a certain amount. It failed, he wasn't even invited to TV debates because "if he doesn't take company money he doesn't have a chance".)
lioeters 4y ago
What I'm afraid is that, if the EU continues to successfully assert their authority in matters of pro-consumer/worker/citizen issues, the affected corporations will be more motivated to bribe and thoroughly corrupt the system just like they've done in the U.S.
- tobyhinloopen 4y ago
  They can try but it’s much less effective in the EU. US government just doesn’t care about its people
CaptainNegative 4y ago
EU-based *aaS companies are practically nonexistent relative to US-based ones, so there's basically nothing holding them back from passing bills like this one gerrymandered to (i) companies with a global market cap above €75B, (ii) with 45 million European users, (iii) and an included web browser or messaging app. If they had companies satisfying those criteria, they'd certainly see more pushback. I personally like these changes, but the cynical forum shopping underlying the €75B threshold they picked is pretty nasty behavior, and I hope US lawmakers retaliate appropriately.
- Aperocky 4y ago
  So it's basically thinly veiled protectionism.
- biztos 4y ago
  Would it not be possible to spin off “iPhone Europe PLC” which is worth less than the threshold? If it were truly independent then Apple’s “global market cap” would be irrelevant, and Cupertino could collect via IP licensing in Luxembourg taxed at 5%. [edited for clarity, I think]
  - unity1001 4y ago
    > Would it not be possible to spin off “iPhone Europe PLC” which is worth less than the threshold? That kind of loophole-explotation floats only in common law. Not in civil law. The civil law would go down like a hammer on such heads.
  - dx034 4y ago
    Apple with just European users would be worth much more. If a company really wasn't that big just in Europe, there would be a case to exclude them. Apple certainly isn't one of them.
- antioppressor 4y ago
  Retaliate for what? There are zero rules and regulations in the US concerning these big behemoths. Those senate hearings are just laughingstock kinda theatricals.Just watch back the Microsoft Antitrust Depositions with Bill Gates.
  - CaptainNegative 4y ago
    "No vehicle from an auto manufacturer with annual global revenue exceeding $150B USD is eligible for EV credits unless they also offer a hybrid or electric vehicle with MSRP $27000 or less." Oh, only the European VW and Daimler would be impacted? Such a shame.
    - 4y ago
syrrim 4y ago
Political organizations need to bear in mind the appearance of their actions. Big tech companies are predominantly American (google, apple). Europe putting more regulations on them reads as a patriotic act of defending people from corporate imperialism. The US regulating them reads as limiting the freedom that enabled them to reach such a dominant position in the first place.
chis 4y ago
The U.S. government is pretty inept in general these days. It's hard to see how such an expansive govt regulation would get approved by the current Congress which gets deadlocked over pretty much anything.
antioppressor 4y ago
Because tech behemoths are tentacles of the US. Part of the country's global strategy. US is also meddling in EU lawmaking big time. These rules should be brought around 10+ years ago when they were creating the basic rules for their nice ecosystem.
tobyhinloopen 4y ago
EU is a democracy.
unity1001 4y ago
Proportional representation allowing representation of all views in countries' parliaments on top of doing the same in Euparl. This leading to many actual left-wing MPs getting elected and informing entire parliaments about stuff which the average American may never know about - less American congressmen would ever want to hear about: The browser wars came to Euparl way back in mid 2000s and left-wing MPs first warned that major corporations would abuse it, then over time they demonstrated that it was happening exactly so. Leading to Microsoft vs the Commission and the browser ballot box. Then GDPR. In the meantime, also GMO labeling. And food standards WAY back. And right to repair and all that stuff. And now this. There are even communist MPs in Euparl who are MAJOR proponents of Open Source since a long time ago. They also subscribe to the ideology as well. Which brings about an interesting point: The legislation precisely targets the early, free state of the Internet from mid 2000s to early 2010s before major tech companies consolidated everything.

by jarbus 4y ago

Why is the EU able to pass pro-consumer laws, but America unable to? Are big tech companies just unable to properly bribe the European Union like they do the American Government?

dbrgn 4y ago

Because of institutional corruption. Lawrence Lessig has some great talks about this topic, here's one of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okfLPvBjImM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okfLPvBjImM Here's another one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxCo2bE9Gtk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxCo2bE9Gtk (Lawrence Lessig, a law professor, was one of the founders of Creative Commons. He later tried to change US copyright laws to be more consumer-friendly, but concluded that it's almost impossible to do so as long as corporate interests rule politics. He then shifted his research topics to institutional corruption in politics. He actually ran for presidency a few years ago, with funding only from the popuplation, and limited to a certain amount. It failed, he wasn't even invited to TV debates because "if he doesn't take company money he doesn't have a chance".)

lioeters 4y ago

What I'm afraid is that, if the EU continues to successfully assert their authority in matters of pro-consumer/worker/citizen issues, the affected corporations will be more motivated to bribe and thoroughly corrupt the system just like they've done in the U.S.

tobyhinloopen 4y ago
They can try but it’s much less effective in the EU. US government just doesn’t care about its people

CaptainNegative 4y ago

EU-based *aaS companies are practically nonexistent relative to US-based ones, so there's basically nothing holding them back from passing bills like this one gerrymandered to (i) companies with a global market cap above €75B, (ii) with 45 million European users, (iii) and an included web browser or messaging app. If they had companies satisfying those criteria, they'd certainly see more pushback. I personally like these changes, but the cynical forum shopping underlying the €75B threshold they picked is pretty nasty behavior, and I hope US lawmakers retaliate appropriately.

Aperocky 4y ago
So it's basically thinly veiled protectionism.
biztos 4y ago
Would it not be possible to spin off “iPhone Europe PLC” which is worth less than the threshold? If it were truly independent then Apple’s “global market cap” would be irrelevant, and Cupertino could collect via IP licensing in Luxembourg taxed at 5%. [edited for clarity, I think]
- unity1001 4y ago
  > Would it not be possible to spin off “iPhone Europe PLC” which is worth less than the threshold? That kind of loophole-explotation floats only in common law. Not in civil law. The civil law would go down like a hammer on such heads.
- dx034 4y ago
  Apple with just European users would be worth much more. If a company really wasn't that big just in Europe, there would be a case to exclude them. Apple certainly isn't one of them.
antioppressor 4y ago
Retaliate for what? There are zero rules and regulations in the US concerning these big behemoths. Those senate hearings are just laughingstock kinda theatricals.Just watch back the Microsoft Antitrust Depositions with Bill Gates.
- CaptainNegative 4y ago
  "No vehicle from an auto manufacturer with annual global revenue exceeding $150B USD is eligible for EV credits unless they also offer a hybrid or electric vehicle with MSRP $27000 or less." Oh, only the European VW and Daimler would be impacted? Such a shame.
  - 4y ago

syrrim 4y ago

Political organizations need to bear in mind the appearance of their actions. Big tech companies are predominantly American (google, apple). Europe putting more regulations on them reads as a patriotic act of defending people from corporate imperialism. The US regulating them reads as limiting the freedom that enabled them to reach such a dominant position in the first place.

chis 4y ago

The U.S. government is pretty inept in general these days. It's hard to see how such an expansive govt regulation would get approved by the current Congress which gets deadlocked over pretty much anything.

antioppressor 4y ago

Because tech behemoths are tentacles of the US. Part of the country's global strategy. US is also meddling in EU lawmaking big time. These rules should be brought around 10+ years ago when they were creating the basic rules for their nice ecosystem.

tobyhinloopen 4y ago

EU is a democracy.

unity1001 4y ago

Proportional representation allowing representation of all views in countries' parliaments on top of doing the same in Euparl. This leading to many actual left-wing MPs getting elected and informing entire parliaments about stuff which the average American may never know about - less American congressmen would ever want to hear about: The browser wars came to Euparl way back in mid 2000s and left-wing MPs first warned that major corporations would abuse it, then over time they demonstrated that it was happening exactly so. Leading to Microsoft vs the Commission and the browser ballot box. Then GDPR. In the meantime, also GMO labeling. And food standards WAY back. And right to repair and all that stuff. And now this. There are even communist MPs in Euparl who are MAJOR proponents of Open Source since a long time ago. They also subscribe to the ideology as well. Which brings about an interesting point: The legislation precisely targets the early, free state of the Internet from mid 2000s to early 2010s before major tech companies consolidated everything.