4 ms·

You know it's not by accident, right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_

You know it's not by accident, right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_consp...

gruez 4y ago
Under "Counterarguments" section it's been argued that the streetcar lines were already on a downward decline by the time GM bought them, so blaming GM seems tenuous.
- akgerber 4y ago
  US streetcar lines were in the 'transit death spiral' in no small part because they were largely built before cars were common, and became dramatically slower once car traffic started obstructing their right-of-way, which they were usually required by contract to maintain. (There were many other factors, including their overexpansion during a securities bubble and that their concessions were usually for a 'nickel fare' with no inflation adjustment, which lead to declining real revenue over time)
Symmetry 4y ago
Streetcars, combining the routing inflexibility of trains with the vulnerability to traffic of busses. We could have saved them if we'd banned cars from city centers and you can argue that if you want to but it wasn't GM that did them in.
- woodruffw 4y ago
  "Vulnerability to traffic" can be alternately expressed as "right of way violated by individual cars." The history of the decline of streetcars in the US is the history of automotive companies convincing the public that cars take priority over all other forms of transportation, consequences for the commons be damned.
  - amanaplanacanal 4y ago
    The same reason they invented the crime of “jaywalking”.
    - saimiam 4y ago
      I’d argue Jaywalking is probably one of biggest reasons traffic in India is so chaotic. People simply walk on the street and it wrecks traffic flow, reducing all flow to stop and go with accompanying honking. I, for one, wish jaywalking were treated as a crime on Indian streets. Maybe then we’d fight to take back the pavements currently used by hawkers and for parking. Side note: how does one reverse the tragedy of the commons? How do we make people treat roads and public areas like a shared resource?
      - dvfjsdhgfv 4y ago
        Some European cities, especially in the Netherlands, found a solution, and I think it works quite well.
        saimiam 4y ago
        You mean bikes? India is usually too hot to cycle. Here’s another statistic which amazed me when I first heard - apparently 70% of working age Mumbaikars (Mumbai-ites?) walk to work. That could be another reason why there are so many people on the road all the time.
        woodruffw 4y ago
        I think they probably meant the Netherlands' general urban planning principles. Cycling access is one small part, but there are lots of other things that can be copied: making it impractical to drive in city centers, restricting commercial traffic to highways and off-hours stops, fully separating pedestrian and cycling crossings, etc.

You know it's not by accident, right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_consp...

gruez 4y ago

Under "Counterarguments" section it's been argued that the streetcar lines were already on a downward decline by the time GM bought them, so blaming GM seems tenuous.

akgerber 4y ago
US streetcar lines were in the 'transit death spiral' in no small part because they were largely built before cars were common, and became dramatically slower once car traffic started obstructing their right-of-way, which they were usually required by contract to maintain. (There were many other factors, including their overexpansion during a securities bubble and that their concessions were usually for a 'nickel fare' with no inflation adjustment, which lead to declining real revenue over time)

Symmetry 4y ago

Streetcars, combining the routing inflexibility of trains with the vulnerability to traffic of busses. We could have saved them if we'd banned cars from city centers and you can argue that if you want to but it wasn't GM that did them in.

woodruffw 4y ago
"Vulnerability to traffic" can be alternately expressed as "right of way violated by individual cars." The history of the decline of streetcars in the US is the history of automotive companies convincing the public that cars take priority over all other forms of transportation, consequences for the commons be damned.
- amanaplanacanal 4y ago
  The same reason they invented the crime of “jaywalking”.
  - saimiam 4y ago
    I’d argue Jaywalking is probably one of biggest reasons traffic in India is so chaotic. People simply walk on the street and it wrecks traffic flow, reducing all flow to stop and go with accompanying honking. I, for one, wish jaywalking were treated as a crime on Indian streets. Maybe then we’d fight to take back the pavements currently used by hawkers and for parking. Side note: how does one reverse the tragedy of the commons? How do we make people treat roads and public areas like a shared resource?
    - dvfjsdhgfv 4y ago
      Some European cities, especially in the Netherlands, found a solution, and I think it works quite well.
      - saimiam 4y ago
        You mean bikes? India is usually too hot to cycle. Here’s another statistic which amazed me when I first heard - apparently 70% of working age Mumbaikars (Mumbai-ites?) walk to work. That could be another reason why there are so many people on the road all the time.
        woodruffw 4y ago
        I think they probably meant the Netherlands' general urban planning principles. Cycling access is one small part, but there are lots of other things that can be copied: making it impractical to drive in city centers, restricting commercial traffic to highways and off-hours stops, fully separating pedestrian and cycling crossings, etc.