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This reminds me of the old days of "unlimited" dial-up connections. I worked for an ISP that offered such a plan. You were never charged any overage fees, and

by sbarre 15y ago

This reminds me of the old days of "unlimited" dial-up connections. I worked for an ISP that offered such a plan. You were never charged any overage fees, and there were no hard caps on your monthly hours, but we reserved the right to limit access on a per-case basis for heavy users, and to prioritize usage (back when we had user-to-line ratios) to limit heavy users during peak hours to ensure all customers could use the service. We were very clear about this in our signup sheet too (it wasn't buried in the T&C). It works well for the 90% of the people who have "regular" usage patterns ("regular" being defined by the provider) and just don't want to have to keep an eye on their usage. It doesn't work for the 10% of heavy usage customers, or the folks who think the provider should be held to their own personal definition of "unlimited" (i.e. "unlimited means I should be able to stay connected 24/7 all month long!!"). All that said, I think Republic Wireless should be a little clearer about what unlimited means. They're trying, but I think it's still a bit vague at the moment.

nomdeplume 15y ago
unlimited: adj- without limits or bounds
jtreminio 15y ago
(i.e. "unlimited means I should be able to stay connected 24/7 all month long!!"). Yes, that sounds like unlimited to me. A buffet is unlimited. A small 90lb old lady will eat maybe half a plate. Then come some big 400lb fellas who clean off 8 or 9 plates full. Either one should be accommodated when it's called "unlimited". Otherwise, call it what it is: service with a high limit.
- sbarre 15y ago
  Nope that's what YOU think it means. See my answer above. We never charged anyone for extra hours, but we did not _guarantee_ that you could get online and stay online as much as you want. Take your buffet example: You can eat all you want from what is on the tables, no matter how much that is, but there's no guarantee of an infinite supply of food. If you eat all the pancakes, they are not _obligated_ to supply you with more.
mikeash 15y ago
> It doesn't work for the 10% of heavy usage customers, or the folks who think the provider should be held to their own personal definition of "unlimited" (i.e. "unlimited means I should be able to stay connected 24/7 all month long!!"). How is that their own personal definition? Isn't that what the word "unlimited" means? It is the carriers and ISPs who have started using their own definitions of "unlimited", whereby it actually means "limited". I get that ISPs need to establish limits. I just wish they would say so. It should be considered false advertising to market any service as "unlimited" when it's not.
- sbarre 15y ago
  This is exactly what I mean. Unlimited meant that there were no preset limits to the number of hours you were allowed to use, and there was no surcharge for hours used. It did _not_ mean that you were _guaranteed_ to be allowed access 24/7 all month long. I think that's a fair definition of "unlimited". We were very clear about this, and said so in our ad fine print, and very prominently during the sign-up process.
  - mikeash 15y ago
    "Preset" is a red herring, limits are contrary to "unlimited" whether they're set in advance or decided on the fly. Certainly there's no guaranteed access, but if you're artificially limiting their access, as opposed to just having equipment difficulties or whatever, then that's hardly unlimited. If you're kicking off heavy users, I think that's not at all a fair definition of unlimited. I appreciate that you were up front about the policy and think that's exactly what you should be doing, but disagree with characterizing this as somehow compatible with "unlimited". If "unlimited" is allowed to have these limits, then what exactly does it mean?
    - sbarre 15y ago
      You are free to interpret the word in your own way I guess, but I don't think our definition was unfair or inaccurate. I think you are confusing "unlimited" with "infinite". By your argument, one could say that we didn't offer "unlimited" service because there are a maximum of 744 hours in a month and hey that's not equal to "unlimited". Again this comes back to different valid interpretations of a word, and since we provided the service, ours won. Try going to McDonalds and each time you're there arguing that their "large" fries don't meet your definition of "large". Maybe bring a "large" garbage bag and say "THIS is what large means" and ask them to fill that up, and see how far you get. Anyways, you aren't making any new arguments that customers didn't give me 15 years ago..
dlikhten 15y ago
They mean: Unlimited WiFi usage. Since EVERYTHING is routed through wifi whenever possible, you can call, text, browse without any alternative usage patterns. Also no overages. However if you are a very heavy user, they will terminate your contract in favor of just directing you to another plan. Here's the kicker: This may be good enough for say 30% of people. So why not. It may not be for you, or it may.
gallerytungsten 15y ago
They can't be clearer, because, I suspect they don't know themselves. I imagine they will analyze usage patterns and decide which 10% or so of customers they want to get rid of every so often, based on a per-user P&L type of analysis.

by sbarre 15y ago

nomdeplume 15y ago

unlimited: adj- without limits or bounds

jtreminio 15y ago

(i.e. "unlimited means I should be able to stay connected 24/7 all month long!!"). Yes, that sounds like unlimited to me. A buffet is unlimited. A small 90lb old lady will eat maybe half a plate. Then come some big 400lb fellas who clean off 8 or 9 plates full. Either one should be accommodated when it's called "unlimited". Otherwise, call it what it is: service with a high limit.

sbarre 15y ago
Nope that's what YOU think it means. See my answer above. We never charged anyone for extra hours, but we did not _guarantee_ that you could get online and stay online as much as you want. Take your buffet example: You can eat all you want from what is on the tables, no matter how much that is, but there's no guarantee of an infinite supply of food. If you eat all the pancakes, they are not _obligated_ to supply you with more.

mikeash 15y ago

> It doesn't work for the 10% of heavy usage customers, or the folks who think the provider should be held to their own personal definition of "unlimited" (i.e. "unlimited means I should be able to stay connected 24/7 all month long!!"). How is that their own personal definition? Isn't that what the word "unlimited" means? It is the carriers and ISPs who have started using their own definitions of "unlimited", whereby it actually means "limited". I get that ISPs need to establish limits. I just wish they would say so. It should be considered false advertising to market any service as "unlimited" when it's not.

sbarre 15y ago
This is exactly what I mean. Unlimited meant that there were no preset limits to the number of hours you were allowed to use, and there was no surcharge for hours used. It did _not_ mean that you were _guaranteed_ to be allowed access 24/7 all month long. I think that's a fair definition of "unlimited". We were very clear about this, and said so in our ad fine print, and very prominently during the sign-up process.
- mikeash 15y ago
  "Preset" is a red herring, limits are contrary to "unlimited" whether they're set in advance or decided on the fly. Certainly there's no guaranteed access, but if you're artificially limiting their access, as opposed to just having equipment difficulties or whatever, then that's hardly unlimited. If you're kicking off heavy users, I think that's not at all a fair definition of unlimited. I appreciate that you were up front about the policy and think that's exactly what you should be doing, but disagree with characterizing this as somehow compatible with "unlimited". If "unlimited" is allowed to have these limits, then what exactly does it mean?
  - sbarre 15y ago
    You are free to interpret the word in your own way I guess, but I don't think our definition was unfair or inaccurate. I think you are confusing "unlimited" with "infinite". By your argument, one could say that we didn't offer "unlimited" service because there are a maximum of 744 hours in a month and hey that's not equal to "unlimited". Again this comes back to different valid interpretations of a word, and since we provided the service, ours won. Try going to McDonalds and each time you're there arguing that their "large" fries don't meet your definition of "large". Maybe bring a "large" garbage bag and say "THIS is what large means" and ask them to fill that up, and see how far you get. Anyways, you aren't making any new arguments that customers didn't give me 15 years ago..

dlikhten 15y ago

They mean: Unlimited WiFi usage. Since EVERYTHING is routed through wifi whenever possible, you can call, text, browse without any alternative usage patterns. Also no overages. However if you are a very heavy user, they will terminate your contract in favor of just directing you to another plan. Here's the kicker: This may be good enough for say 30% of people. So why not. It may not be for you, or it may.

gallerytungsten 15y ago

They can't be clearer, because, I suspect they don't know themselves. I imagine they will analyze usage patterns and decide which 10% or so of customers they want to get rid of every so often, based on a per-user P&L type of analysis.