3 ms·

There have been a couple attempts at this stuff in the past years. Every time people get a bit closer. So far timing issues and performance of compute intense o

There have been a couple attempts at this stuff in the past years. Every time people get a bit closer. So far timing issues and performance of compute intense operations have been the killer. Good luck!

vanillaicesquad 4y ago
soundtrap.com is the answer, mostly.
- playworker 4y ago
  Audiotool? I've never used it but it looks relevant: https://www.audiotool.com/ https://www.audiotool.com/
  - drcongo 4y ago
    Audiotool is surprisingly capable.
stevehiehn 4y ago
I agree. Although I'm using the term DAW it's really a loop arranger pulling from the server.
- and0 4y ago
  Oh, that's very cool. Any ability to run the server as a local service? I know people who mix+master and sending huge project files and also have to convert between DAW formats even. Having a common web DAW that can render on a server could be a very powerful ecosystem.
- 0x20cowboy 4y ago
  I’ve tried to build a similar thing several times over the years - once in flash and once in JS. Timing is the hardest - especially if you’re going to try to let people record on the fly against the running track. Have two or more play at the same time… rough. And I suggest you checkout https://www2022.thewebconf.org/PaperFiles/40.pdf https://www2022.thewebconf.org/PaperFiles/40.pdf there is an implementation called wam out there that lets you use VSTs in JS. It works pretty well. Good luck! I’ll be one of the first to sign up.
  - stevehiehn 4y ago
    Ok, Ya, I'm investigating WAM right now. This is very interesting indeed.
CSSer 4y ago
Sounds like a job for web workers. Do you have any examples? I'd love to check them out. I've seen some sequencers but never a full-blown DAW attempt. I've been toying with a couple browser-based, realtime audio ML ideas lately (mostly porting some models to Tensorflow.js), so my interest is piqued. As far as libraries go for analysis, the only solid option I've found so far is Meyda[0]. I was drawn to it mostly because it closely maps to librosa[1], and it seems fairly mature. Does anyone have any others that may come in handy for this kind of work? This is just free-time tinkering for me. I'm completely new to the space. [0]: https://meyda.js.org/ https://meyda.js.org/ [1]: https://librosa.org/ https://librosa.org/
and0 4y ago
I've always heard the same thing. I have some questions, if anyone has answers. 1.) Is WebAssembly better about timing + buffers? 2.) Is JS have a WebGL-esque lower-level interface with audio hardware planned? 3.) I believe Electron grants more local permissions. I know Electron has some modernization hurdles (ESM still I think) but wonder if it's any better or the Chromium process within it has higher affinity than a proper browser. Not quite "web-based" but maybe a better option as your project gets more complex. 4.) Is it possible to have a buffer that "renders" separate from any loops themselves? If you can't time a drumtrack in real-time accurately enough or "play" an instrument you could certainly have it render N millisecond ahead.
moralestapia 4y ago
Regarding timing issues, that was dead for a while because of spectre and pals, JS runtimes had to mess up the precision of timers in order to mitigate the attack. I've heard it has been enabled recently on secure contexts, though. Just my 2c.

vanillaicesquad 4y ago

soundtrap.com is the answer, mostly.

playworker 4y ago
Audiotool? I've never used it but it looks relevant: https://www.audiotool.com/ https://www.audiotool.com/
- drcongo 4y ago
  Audiotool is surprisingly capable.

stevehiehn 4y ago

I agree. Although I'm using the term DAW it's really a loop arranger pulling from the server.

and0 4y ago
Oh, that's very cool. Any ability to run the server as a local service? I know people who mix+master and sending huge project files and also have to convert between DAW formats even. Having a common web DAW that can render on a server could be a very powerful ecosystem.
0x20cowboy 4y ago
I’ve tried to build a similar thing several times over the years - once in flash and once in JS. Timing is the hardest - especially if you’re going to try to let people record on the fly against the running track. Have two or more play at the same time… rough. And I suggest you checkout https://www2022.thewebconf.org/PaperFiles/40.pdf https://www2022.thewebconf.org/PaperFiles/40.pdf there is an implementation called wam out there that lets you use VSTs in JS. It works pretty well. Good luck! I’ll be one of the first to sign up.
- stevehiehn 4y ago
  Ok, Ya, I'm investigating WAM right now. This is very interesting indeed.

CSSer 4y ago

Sounds like a job for web workers. Do you have any examples? I'd love to check them out. I've seen some sequencers but never a full-blown DAW attempt. I've been toying with a couple browser-based, realtime audio ML ideas lately (mostly porting some models to Tensorflow.js), so my interest is piqued. As far as libraries go for analysis, the only solid option I've found so far is Meyda[0]. I was drawn to it mostly because it closely maps to librosa[1], and it seems fairly mature. Does anyone have any others that may come in handy for this kind of work? This is just free-time tinkering for me. I'm completely new to the space. [0]: https://meyda.js.org/ https://meyda.js.org/ [1]: https://librosa.org/ https://librosa.org/

and0 4y ago

I've always heard the same thing. I have some questions, if anyone has answers. 1.) Is WebAssembly better about timing + buffers? 2.) Is JS have a WebGL-esque lower-level interface with audio hardware planned? 3.) I believe Electron grants more local permissions. I know Electron has some modernization hurdles (ESM still I think) but wonder if it's any better or the Chromium process within it has higher affinity than a proper browser. Not quite "web-based" but maybe a better option as your project gets more complex. 4.) Is it possible to have a buffer that "renders" separate from any loops themselves? If you can't time a drumtrack in real-time accurately enough or "play" an instrument you could certainly have it render N millisecond ahead.

moralestapia 4y ago

Regarding timing issues, that was dead for a while because of spectre and pals, JS runtimes had to mess up the precision of timers in order to mitigate the attack. I've heard it has been enabled recently on secure contexts, though. Just my 2c.