6 ms·

Then just keep using the Apple store and Apple pay.

ben_w 4y ago
That's great until someone has an app I need and chooses to only make it available on a different store. I'm not legally trained, so I hope they've thought of this and also have rules for these 3rd party app stores.
- vesinisa 4y ago
  Well if the app is on a different store you wouldn't be able to currently install it all, right? So you have only expanded your options and it's up to you if you choose to exercise them or not.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - ratww 4y ago
    Well, the app might be currently available in the AppStore but would now be able to move to an AltStore. Plenty of apps I bought in the past have been pulled from macOS AppStore but are available on websites. In the past I even had banks and even the public sector offices abusing Windows and macOS security and forcing me to install the equivalent of a rootkit in my computer. Without a sufficiently smart sandbox I bet this problem will come back. On the other hand, that doesn't seem to have happened on Android, at least not in a wide scale.
- iainmerrick 4y ago
  That’s similar to the situation with Android and iOS right now. In principle, there could be an app you need but can’t use because it’s only on Android and you have an iPhone. If you like the App Store and want to continue using it, you’ll be fine unless it becomes less popular and loses some important apps. That could happen but seems unlikely in the near term.
  - ben_w 4y ago
    Mm, kinda. The following hypothetical feels fairly likely within 12 months of 3rd party app stores being mainstream: (1) App deals with sensitive or linenced content — doesn't matter what, DRM, medical info, private chat, take your pick. (2) App integrates 3rd party library to look for other apps that might be trying to steal your data and/or record the DRMed stream you're playing. This 3rd party library injects itself at the lowest level possible in order to catch anything injecting itself even lower. (3) Bug in library (or supply chain attack in the app as a whole) means the phone is now less secure than if the app had not been installed. The difference from the status quo is, the iOS app store won't let apps root the phone. (IDK if the Android store prevents or allows that). (I know games aren't "must have" apps, but this has already happened with anti-cheat rootkits. And "has this phone been rooted" software already gets used, but doesn't yet need to preemptively root the phone itself, at least not so far as I've seen).
    - iainmerrick 4y ago
      You're envisaging something like a medical or banking app that is intentionally not on the App Store, but instead requires you to use some other installer? I guess that's possible, but seems a bit unlikely -- it's just a pretty big barrier to entry for your users. Android technically allows this already, but how many major apps are not on the Play Store? (Apart from Samsung apps, which is slightly different case as their store is preloaded when you buy the phone. But there won't be a Samsung iOS phone any time soon.)
      - ben_w 4y ago
        I think it's likely enough I expect to see it not just happening but also going wrong within 12 months of this change taking effect, assuming 3rd party app stores are not also regulated to actively prevent that (which they may well be). There is also this anecdote of basically this problem happening on desktops: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32166035 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32166035
- Kelteseth 4y ago
  > That's great until someone has an app I need and chooses to only make it available on a different store. Fair point. The company I work for would 100% now require you to do that If you want to use our software, to make it easier to comply with Qt LGPLv3. > I'm not legally trained, so I hope they've thought of this and also have rules for these 3rd party app stores. Isn't the idea here that you do not need an app store to require external software?

That's great until someone has an app I need and chooses to only make it available on a different store. I'm not legally trained, so I hope they've thought of this and also have rules for these 3rd party app stores.

vesinisa 4y ago
Well if the app is on a different store you wouldn't be able to currently install it all, right? So you have only expanded your options and it's up to you if you choose to exercise them or not.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ratww 4y ago
  Well, the app might be currently available in the AppStore but would now be able to move to an AltStore. Plenty of apps I bought in the past have been pulled from macOS AppStore but are available on websites. In the past I even had banks and even the public sector offices abusing Windows and macOS security and forcing me to install the equivalent of a rootkit in my computer. Without a sufficiently smart sandbox I bet this problem will come back. On the other hand, that doesn't seem to have happened on Android, at least not in a wide scale.
iainmerrick 4y ago
That’s similar to the situation with Android and iOS right now. In principle, there could be an app you need but can’t use because it’s only on Android and you have an iPhone. If you like the App Store and want to continue using it, you’ll be fine unless it becomes less popular and loses some important apps. That could happen but seems unlikely in the near term.
- ben_w 4y ago
  Mm, kinda. The following hypothetical feels fairly likely within 12 months of 3rd party app stores being mainstream: (1) App deals with sensitive or linenced content — doesn't matter what, DRM, medical info, private chat, take your pick. (2) App integrates 3rd party library to look for other apps that might be trying to steal your data and/or record the DRMed stream you're playing. This 3rd party library injects itself at the lowest level possible in order to catch anything injecting itself even lower. (3) Bug in library (or supply chain attack in the app as a whole) means the phone is now less secure than if the app had not been installed. The difference from the status quo is, the iOS app store won't let apps root the phone. (IDK if the Android store prevents or allows that). (I know games aren't "must have" apps, but this has already happened with anti-cheat rootkits. And "has this phone been rooted" software already gets used, but doesn't yet need to preemptively root the phone itself, at least not so far as I've seen).
  - iainmerrick 4y ago
    You're envisaging something like a medical or banking app that is intentionally not on the App Store, but instead requires you to use some other installer? I guess that's possible, but seems a bit unlikely -- it's just a pretty big barrier to entry for your users. Android technically allows this already, but how many major apps are not on the Play Store? (Apart from Samsung apps, which is slightly different case as their store is preloaded when you buy the phone. But there won't be a Samsung iOS phone any time soon.)
    - ben_w 4y ago
      I think it's likely enough I expect to see it not just happening but also going wrong within 12 months of this change taking effect, assuming 3rd party app stores are not also regulated to actively prevent that (which they may well be). There is also this anecdote of basically this problem happening on desktops: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32166035 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32166035
Kelteseth 4y ago
> That's great until someone has an app I need and chooses to only make it available on a different store. Fair point. The company I work for would 100% now require you to do that If you want to use our software, to make it easier to comply with Qt LGPLv3. > I'm not legally trained, so I hope they've thought of this and also have rules for these 3rd party app stores. Isn't the idea here that you do not need an app store to require external software?