4 ms·

I'm honestly wondering why software companies look into chips, especially ones with near to zero hardware experience. Can't they instead invest into optimizatio

by nuccy 4y ago

I'm honestly wondering why software companies look into chips, especially ones with near to zero hardware experience. Can't they instead invest into optimization of software, or re-doing software for their specific need. Why don't we hear about new web-server, new filesystem, new kernel, et al, but hear about chips... Isn't the entry threshold for the chip industry is that low, or the benefits are that high?

hobo_mark 4y ago
I am sure they optimize their software too all the time, down to the kernel. Hyperscalers are, almost by definition, at the scale where hiring and managing silicon talent to shave an extra order of magnitude here and there pays for itself.
giuliomagnifico 4y ago
Well but they can include a back door at hardware level… not that bad for the effort, especially if the China government pay for it! (I’m sarcastic obviously, but who know)
throwaway4good 4y ago
Chip design is essentially programming and be done by a small team and a company willing to put up the capital for having the chips fabbed and put into use. China is a special case as it has identified a series of "chokehold industries" that can be used by the US to constrain Chinese growth. Chips, the highend semiconductor industry, is the most prominent as it was used to constrain and limit Huawei. But it also covers things like databases, operating systems and high quality screws. For each of these industries, there are a number of Chinese companies developing alternatives to Western products with some kind of state support. Having ByteDance participae in this shows the depth of the effort as ByteDance is probably one of most Western-orientated Chinese tech companies.
- 999900000999 4y ago
  How practical would it to open source advanced chip designs and focus on making them easy to make. Could it be possible to spin up a fab within a few years at a price or under 10 million. Even if your designs are 10 or 15 years behind that's better than nothing. Or I guess you could establish an electrics recycling program and strip old GameCubes...
  - sct202 4y ago
    It's going to cost a lot more than $10m or you're going to have to start a lot simpler. This year, Tower Semiconductor (soon to be part of Intel) has proposed spending $3b on joint venture fab in India that will produce 65nm chips which was cutting edge 17 years ago. TSMC's Japanese plant is $9b for 28nm which is 10 years old.
    - 999900000999 4y ago
      I was more thinking about a professional version of this ? https://www.wired.com/story/22-year-old-builds-chips-parents-garage/ https://www.wired.com/story/22-year-old-builds-chips-parents... Even if we all had to start using chips from the 2000s again, we'd survive.
    - throwaway4good 4y ago
      There was this create your own chip with Google a while back: https://www.fossi-foundation.org/2020/06/30/skywater-pdk https://www.fossi-foundation.org/2020/06/30/skywater-pdk I don't know what came of it.
- orangepurple 4y ago
  > Having ByteDance participae in this shows the depth of the effort as ByteDance is probably one of most Western-orientated Chinese tech companies. I would go further and assert that ByteDance is a state-sanctioned Chinese psychological weapons manufacturer and covert intelligence gathering operation on an unprecedented scale which is optimized to destroy the minds of foreigners, harvest their preferences, social status, movement data, and identities. To quote Yuri Bezmenov: Most of the activity of the Department was to compile huge amount, volume of information on individuals who were instrumental in creating public opinion, publishers, editors, journalists, actors, educationalists, professors of political science, members of Parliament, representatives of business circles. Most of these people were divided roughly in two groups, those that would toe the Soviet foreign policy. They would be promoted to the positions of power through media and public opinion manipulation. Those who refused the Soviet influence in their own country would be character assassinated or executed physically, come revolution. Same way, as in the small town of Hue, in South Vietnam, several thousands of Vietnamese were executed in one night when city was captured by Vietcong for only two days. And American CIA could never figure out, how could possibly Communists know each individual, where he lives, where, where to get him and would be arrested in one night, basically, arrested four hours before dawn, put on a van, taken out of the city limits and shot? The answer is very simple. Long before Communists occupied city there was extensive network of informers, local Vietnamese citizens who knew absolutely everything about people who are instrumental in public opinion, including barbers and taxi drivers. Everyone who was sympathetic to United States was executed. Same thing was done under the guidance of the Soviet Embassy in Hanoi. And same thing I was doing in New Delhi. To my horror, I discovered that in the files were people who were doomed to execution. There were names of pro-Soviet journalists with whom I was personally friendly. G. Edward Griffin : Pro-Soviet? Yuri Bezmenov: Yes. They were idealistically-minded Leftists who made several visits to USSR and yet the KGB decided that come revolution or drastic changes in political structure in India, they would have to go. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yErKTVdETpw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yErKTVdETpw
  - LeonTheremin 4y ago
    Facebook and TikTok (and all of Big Tech) are using electromagnetic surveillance with Silicon Trojans. Their only affiliation is to themselves and their monopoly is backed by violence with directed energy weapons. Overt web tracking and country ties are just misdirection. Evidence? Do an x-ray of your CPU and you will find the Silicon Trojans. Will you trust your own eyes or meaningless promises?
dixie_land 4y ago
Brownie points (grants, tax cuts, good will) from the communist party

by nuccy 4y ago

hobo_mark 4y ago

I am sure they optimize their software too all the time, down to the kernel. Hyperscalers are, almost by definition, at the scale where hiring and managing silicon talent to shave an extra order of magnitude here and there pays for itself.

giuliomagnifico 4y ago

Well but they can include a back door at hardware level… not that bad for the effort, especially if the China government pay for it! (I’m sarcastic obviously, but who know)

throwaway4good 4y ago

Chip design is essentially programming and be done by a small team and a company willing to put up the capital for having the chips fabbed and put into use. China is a special case as it has identified a series of "chokehold industries" that can be used by the US to constrain Chinese growth. Chips, the highend semiconductor industry, is the most prominent as it was used to constrain and limit Huawei. But it also covers things like databases, operating systems and high quality screws. For each of these industries, there are a number of Chinese companies developing alternatives to Western products with some kind of state support. Having ByteDance participae in this shows the depth of the effort as ByteDance is probably one of most Western-orientated Chinese tech companies.

999900000999 4y ago
How practical would it to open source advanced chip designs and focus on making them easy to make. Could it be possible to spin up a fab within a few years at a price or under 10 million. Even if your designs are 10 or 15 years behind that's better than nothing. Or I guess you could establish an electrics recycling program and strip old GameCubes...
- sct202 4y ago
  It's going to cost a lot more than $10m or you're going to have to start a lot simpler. This year, Tower Semiconductor (soon to be part of Intel) has proposed spending $3b on joint venture fab in India that will produce 65nm chips which was cutting edge 17 years ago. TSMC's Japanese plant is $9b for 28nm which is 10 years old.
  - 999900000999 4y ago
    I was more thinking about a professional version of this ? https://www.wired.com/story/22-year-old-builds-chips-parents-garage/ https://www.wired.com/story/22-year-old-builds-chips-parents... Even if we all had to start using chips from the 2000s again, we'd survive.
  - throwaway4good 4y ago
    There was this create your own chip with Google a while back: https://www.fossi-foundation.org/2020/06/30/skywater-pdk https://www.fossi-foundation.org/2020/06/30/skywater-pdk I don't know what came of it.
orangepurple 4y ago
> Having ByteDance participae in this shows the depth of the effort as ByteDance is probably one of most Western-orientated Chinese tech companies. I would go further and assert that ByteDance is a state-sanctioned Chinese psychological weapons manufacturer and covert intelligence gathering operation on an unprecedented scale which is optimized to destroy the minds of foreigners, harvest their preferences, social status, movement data, and identities. To quote Yuri Bezmenov: Most of the activity of the Department was to compile huge amount, volume of information on individuals who were instrumental in creating public opinion, publishers, editors, journalists, actors, educationalists, professors of political science, members of Parliament, representatives of business circles. Most of these people were divided roughly in two groups, those that would toe the Soviet foreign policy. They would be promoted to the positions of power through media and public opinion manipulation. Those who refused the Soviet influence in their own country would be character assassinated or executed physically, come revolution. Same way, as in the small town of Hue, in South Vietnam, several thousands of Vietnamese were executed in one night when city was captured by Vietcong for only two days. And American CIA could never figure out, how could possibly Communists know each individual, where he lives, where, where to get him and would be arrested in one night, basically, arrested four hours before dawn, put on a van, taken out of the city limits and shot? The answer is very simple. Long before Communists occupied city there was extensive network of informers, local Vietnamese citizens who knew absolutely everything about people who are instrumental in public opinion, including barbers and taxi drivers. Everyone who was sympathetic to United States was executed. Same thing was done under the guidance of the Soviet Embassy in Hanoi. And same thing I was doing in New Delhi. To my horror, I discovered that in the files were people who were doomed to execution. There were names of pro-Soviet journalists with whom I was personally friendly. G. Edward Griffin : Pro-Soviet? Yuri Bezmenov: Yes. They were idealistically-minded Leftists who made several visits to USSR and yet the KGB decided that come revolution or drastic changes in political structure in India, they would have to go. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yErKTVdETpw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yErKTVdETpw
- LeonTheremin 4y ago
  Facebook and TikTok (and all of Big Tech) are using electromagnetic surveillance with Silicon Trojans. Their only affiliation is to themselves and their monopoly is backed by violence with directed energy weapons. Overt web tracking and country ties are just misdirection. Evidence? Do an x-ray of your CPU and you will find the Silicon Trojans. Will you trust your own eyes or meaningless promises?

dixie_land 4y ago

Brownie points (grants, tax cuts, good will) from the communist party