11 ms·

Hetzner to Offer First Arm-Based Dedicated Servers in Europe

234 points by dx034 4y ago

Nullabillity 4y ago
Wasn't this Scaleway's big launch a decade ago? Funny how the world comes full circle eventually…
- joyfylbanana 4y ago
  These are heavy processors with 80 cores. Scaleway had entirely different proposal, more like RPi's stacked or something. I haven't seen anything like this before so interesting to see if anyone can comment on their performance/stability/etc. Check the specs here: https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/matrix-rx https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/matrix-rx
- sschueller 4y ago
  Yes, although I think they were shared in vms?
  - tecleandor 4y ago
    Shared disk IIRC, not VMs. They had 1U servers full of boards connected to a backplane (or so it seems) [1], but the storage was shared and centralized in a SAN. https://www.cnx-software.com/2015/04/02/scaleway-provides-dedicated-arm-servers-for-10-euros-per-month-0-02-euro-per-hour/ https://www.cnx-software.com/2015/04/02/scaleway-provides-de... Edit: Here are some pics for the ARM modules: https://www.cnx-software.com/2014/12/30/iliads-online-labs-offers-quad-core-armv7-dedicated-servers/ https://www.cnx-software.com/2014/12/30/iliads-online-labs-o...
    - naniwaduni 4y ago
      > They had 1U servers full of boards connected to a backplane (or so it seems) [1], but the storage was shared and centralized in a SAN. This bit was pretty horrific and could seriously cramp your style trying to do things with those servers, too; you had to boot to a provided kernel so they could start up an nbd-client in early boot, which for extra fun you could accidentally kill while the machine was booted, which would probably force a power cycle.
      - tecleandor 4y ago
        Oh, I remember, that was a mess. IIRC there were only certain kernels available and you couldn't build modules (or at least not easily). I think I had problems to enable modules for filesystems or Docker or something like that.
- tecleandor 4y ago
  Yep! They launched the C1 servers in 2013 and in 2014 they were providing Docker support for them [1]. Of course, those were simple and slow chips and these are 80cores Ampere Altra, but of course, it's not the first dedicated ARM service in Europe. Note: IIRC Scaleway had their C1 servers booting from the network, not local disk, but still... 1: https://blog.scaleway.com/docker-on-c1/ https://blog.scaleway.com/docker-on-c1/
- bravetraveler 4y ago
  Indeed, it was a little buggy but I truly loved it. I spent way more than I probably should have on fun tiny-ARM clusters... when I was just barely no longer a teenager [and I'm much older now]
zimpenfish 4y ago
"the low price of € 169 a month and € 179 setup fee" Yikes. Although it is 80-core, 128GB, I suppose.
- joyfylbanana 4y ago
  It is not that pricy if you look at the beefiest intel/amd machines. However you really have to get better performance from these to justify the price. Unless core count is somehow more important to the specific use case.
  - rakoo 4y ago
    I suppose a simple server with very little computing (web, irc, stuff like that) should benefit from this
- dx034 4y ago
  Much cheaper than a comparable x64 machine. But only if you can use 80 cores.
  - pjerem 4y ago
    Using 80 (or x) cores is pretty easy in any web (or network) workload where non blocking multi threading is the norm.
- adrian_b 4y ago
  The prices seem reasonable for a dedicated server. That means a little above EUR 4000 for 2 years, which is around the minimum that would be paid for a server with Epyc or Xeon of similar capacity (when you assemble it yourself, at Dell or HP it would be much more expensive). The equivalence with Epyc/Xeon also depends a lot on the intended applications, for scientific computing a 32 cores/64 threads Epyc/Xeon might have a similar performance, while for a Web server or database server a 64 cores/128 threads Epyc might be needed to exceed the performance of the 80-core Altra CPU, and a server like that might cost as much as 4 years of renting. So if you buy your own server and you use it for at least 5 years, then you would certainly spend much less than when renting. However, renting a server like this can cost less when you are not certain over long-term perspectives and it also has the advantage that there is no large one-time payment.
rvnx 4y ago
Google Cloud offers Ampere servers in multiple regions under label T2A for quite some time now and probably Alibaba Cloud / Huawei Cloud (haven't verified) and others
- baobob 4y ago
  None of these are European companies. It already matters to some today, but due to policy pushes within Europe over the next 10 years it is going to matter to a whole lot more
  - esseti 4y ago
    that's a point that many (too many) people misses right now. it will cause a lot of problem. If someone is able to reproduce (somehow) what AWS / Google does fro cloud, but with an EU company, they will have a lot of new customers very soon.
    - rvnx 4y ago
      It's a common confusion, but when you contract with Google Cloud, the service is provided by "Google Cloud EMEA Limited, Ireland", which is an European company, and when they provide you with a datacenter in Europe they are totally an European company operating in Europe. This is different for example to DigitalOcean LLC, that is a US-entity providing service to European customers (this example has to be verified, but that's what I remember).
      - baobob 4y ago
        This is a distinction that will be increasingly lost on EU regulators, more so than it already is today.
        waffleiron 4y ago
        It is lost on regulators due to CLOUD act. The parent company still can access the personal data stored by subsidiaries.
lizardactivist 4y ago
Scaleway had their own self-developed ARM boards like 5 years ago with dedicated cores and RAM, although it was mostly for testing and development and was very low price.
- IgorPartola 4y ago
  And somehow had no support for IPv6.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- julienfr112 4y ago
  That was VM if I remember right, not bare metal
  - worldofmatthew 4y ago
    It was a dedicated server with 4 ARM Cores.
- PaulKeeble 4y ago
  It also barely worked at all.
  - lizardactivist 4y ago
    User error.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
      IIRC Scaleway discontinued it because they considered it too buggy, so probably not.
      - lizardactivist 4y ago
baobob 4y ago
It doesn't look like there's much margin to be gained with these, the smallest is priced only slightly cheaper than their Ryzen machines on a threads-per-buck basis, but comes with substantially lower memory per thread. It looks like you'd always be better off buying multiples of their Ryzens rather than one of these if your workload supports horizontal partitioning
- tecleandor 4y ago
  Don't know about the Ryzen vs Ampera performance, but it's probably great if you REALLY need ARM processor, as the selection right now is limited unless you do VMs in Google Cloud or AWS. So whoever does CI/CD, testing, building... for ARM is gonna be grateful for this.
coredog64 4y ago
AWS released a1.metal in EU regions in October 2019: https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/10/introducing-availability-of-amazon-ec2-a1-bare-metal-instances/ https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/10/introduci...
- Youden 4y ago
  Those aren't dedicated servers. They use a hypervisor [0]. [0]: https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/instance-types/a1/ https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/instance-types/a1/
  - tecleandor 4y ago
    I think there's a1 (virtualized) and a1.metal (bare metal). Although I think the metal versions also include Nitro hardware. But not my specialty.
    - pclmulqdq 4y ago
      The metal versions use the Nitro card, but run all of the virtualization on the Nitro card, so there is no hypervisor running on the machine. VMWare has had ESXi doing similar virtualization with the help of switches for a while too (although I think ESXi still has a tiny hypervisor).
      - bogomipz 4y ago
        Isn't there still a hypervisor present though but rather than the hypervisor running on a general purpose CPU it's running on the Nitro chipset? There's still a type 1 hypervisor involved no? How else would the hypercalls from the guests work?
        mcspiff 4y ago
        There is no hypercalls. Your operating system is running directly on the CPU, same as regular bare metal servers.
hamburglar 4y ago
OCI sells Arm-based bare metal servers too.
TradingPlaces 4y ago
That’s the 3rd big win for Ampere. Already in Google and Oracles clouds
- adrian_b 4y ago
  Also in Microsoft Azure. So this is 4th win. The main companies that are missing from their customer list are Amazon and Alibaba. Both Amazon and Alibaba, have their own 64-big-cores or 128-medium-cores ARM server CPU designs (the 80 or 128 cores in Altra are medium cores), and both designs are superior to Altra in performance and also in ISA level support (Amazon Graviton 3 supports Armv8.4-A with SVE, while Alibaba Yitian 710 supports Armv9.0-A with SVE2). It remains to be seen whether the custom ARM cores on which the Ampere design team works for their next CPU generation will succeed to leapfrog the CPUs of Amazon and Alibaba (which are using cores licensed from the ARM company).
- raverbashing 4y ago
  Any Ampere vs M1/M2 comparisons I wonder...
  - TradingPlaces 4y ago
    Quickly, what I found on Geekbench browser. 80 core Altra vs. Macbook Pro M2: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/compare/15913010?baseline=14848780 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/compare/15913010?baseli... Pretty much as I expected with M2 winning single core and Altra winning multi. But if you look at the individual multicore tests, certain ones the M2 seems to be optimized for (camera, PDF rendering), and it blows away Altra. Probably the audio-video-photo units on the M2. Really not the best comparison, imo, because they are built for different ends. Still interesting
ricardobeat 4y ago
Totally off topic, but why on earth is text selection disabled in this page on mobile? I was excited to share an excerpt with my team and am just frustrated now.
- tonightstoast 4y ago
  That is super odd - I’m wondering if they just messed up some CSS. Another win for reader mode I suppose.
  - codetrotter 4y ago
    Reader mode saves the day :)
- codetrotter 4y ago
  Here you go. > RX-Line: Pushing the envelop of parallelization - Hetzner Online GmbH > 19 July 2022 > RX-Line: Pushing the envelop of parallelization > The new RX-line is now available and features the first Arm-based dedicated servers in Europe. The servers house an Ampere ® Altra ® Q80-30 SoC with Arm64 architecture, which gives you 80 cores of single-threaded processing power. > The new line includes two models. The RX170 is the smaller model of the two, but it still comes with 128 GB DDR4 registered ECC memory modules and 2x 960 GB NVMe SSD at the low price of € 169 a month and € 179 setup fee. The RX220, on the other hand, comes with impressive 256 GB DDR4 registered ECC memory modules and 2 x 3.84 TB NVMe SSD at the fair price of € 219 a month and a setup fee of € 229. > Where is the catch, you wonder? Only a few servers are currently available. As we work through ramping the supply chain for the RX Line, be the first to get an Ampere-based server. Over the next few months, expect further announcements of improved availability as we scale out this exciting product line. > So what are you waiting for? Order yours now, and start saving time and money on your IT infrastructure. > Check it out now > All prices excl. VAT.
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  It's another case of a webpage working better with javascript disabled by default. Disabling javascript fixes more websites than it breaks.
blfr 4y ago
I have had an arm-based dedicated server with OVH (old SoYouStart line) for over four years now: processor : 0 model name : ARMv7 Processor rev 1 (v7l) It's in Gravelins.
- worldofmatthew 4y ago
  The old storage server with Dual Core 1GHZ ARM CPUs?
  - blfr 4y ago
    This one, yes.
    - worldofmatthew 4y ago
      Those came out before cheaper VPSs with that storage level came out.
- eptcyka 4y ago
  So they should rephrase it to mean that they're the first to offer ARMv8 dedicated servers?
  - jbverschoor 4y ago
    No.. they should just rephrase that they offer arm based dedicated servers instead of trying to reach the headlines
    - eptcyka 4y ago
      I'd say having access to dedicated ARMv8 in Europe is headline worthy.
      - nwh5jg56df 4y ago
        Agree, some interesting problems require it
up6w6 4y ago
A comparison between the mentioned Ampere Altra Q80-30 and AWS Graviton2: https://blog.cloudflare.com/arms-race-ampere-altra-takes-on-aws-graviton2/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/arms-race-ampere-altra-takes-on-... A similar instance to the RX220 at Equinix (bare metal) would cost around $1800/month [1]. (8x Hetzner's price) [1] https://metal.equinix.com/product/servers/c3-large-arm64/ https://metal.equinix.com/product/servers/c3-large-arm64/
- BonoboIO 4y ago
  I m a die hard fan of Hetzner, but well I m biased, I sleek German and live in Europe. Their prices are unmatched and their service is awesome. The got Mac Mini M1 Servers as low as 50€. And big dedicated servers. In my company we use 80% hetzner.
  - brian_cunnie 4y ago
    I'm a die-hard Hetzner fan, too. I have personal servers on AWS, Azure, Digital Ocean, GCP, and Vultr, but I think my Hetzner server is my favorite & provides the biggest bang for the buck. Oh, and I'm American, I speak English, and I live in San Francisco.
- dx034 4y ago
  2x25G though vs 1G at Hetzner (max 10G for 39€ extra). With that many cores, I guess it's easy to saturate 10G, 2x25G sounds much better.
fanf2 4y ago
Mythic Beasts have had ARM-based dedicated servers in Europe since 2017 (over 5 years ago). They have many Raspberry Pi with POE and NAS (no SD cards). (Mythic Beasts also host the Raspberry Pi web site.) https://www.mythic-beasts.com/blog/2017/03/02/hosting-a-website-on-a-raspberry-pi-with-ipv6-and-ssl-part-1/ https://www.mythic-beasts.com/blog/2017/03/02/hosting-a-webs...
lma21 4y ago
They should up the network to 10 GBit/s. Given the price and specs of those servers, one can build a powerful bare-metal cluster there...
- PaywallBuster 4y ago
  Would be good if they offer it upfront or as an add-on during order but currently you can request it as referred here https://docs.hetzner.com/robot/dedicated-server/general-information/root-server-hardware/#miscellaneous https://docs.hetzner.com/robot/dedicated-server/general-info...
  - nixgeek 4y ago
    Right now the option you’d usually use for 10G to the internet doesn’t say it supports RX-line servers. If you search for “10G dedicated uplink” and look in the rightmost column it covers what they will support requests on. I’ve successfully used it on AX and SX many times and I’d be happy to see Hetzner also support RX!
  - dx034 4y ago
    I'd also probably order the 10G for that price if it was just a checkbox in the order process. But opening a ticket later (and downtime for the server), or waiting substantially longer for the server to be available isn't really an option for me. I'm wondering if they deliberately do that because their switches couldn't handle too many 10G servers?
mnd999 4y ago
Pretty sure mythic beasts has been offering raspberry pi servers for some time.
drcongo 4y ago
Hope this filters down to their cloud / VM offerings.
onphonenow 4y ago
johnklos 4y ago
Misleading title. "Hetzner to offer *their* first ARM-based"...
- layer8 4y ago
  Who else already offers dedicated ARM-based servers in Europe? Just curious. Edit: …except Hetzner themselves who already did in 2015 as noted upthread.
  - mnw21cam 4y ago
    There have been various hosting services that have hosted Raspberry Pi units - some of them even did this for free. I submit this in the best HN spirit of technically-correct.
    - layer8 4y ago
      The best kind of correct. ;)
  - puzzlingcaptcha 4y ago
    Scaleway did. It was some Marvell Armada SoC IIRC.
  - JeanMarcS 4y ago
    >cat /proc/cpuinfo >processor : 0 >model name : ARMv7 Processor rev 1 (v7l) This is on a server I have at OVH (SoYouStart to be accurate) from july 2018
  - maeln 4y ago
    Scaleway / Online.net
  - openplatypus 4y ago
    OVH, Scaleway
  - dilyevsky 4y ago
    Equinix Metal does with 1-y commit
miohtama 4y ago
What are the best payloads for these servers? What applications can utilise 80 ARM cores well?
- jcuenod 4y ago
  crypto miners of course ;)
  - miohtama 4y ago
    I do not think any relevant cryptocurrency is using CPUs anymore. Further, most of the top blockchains now run on proof-of-stake consensus.
- freemint 4y ago
  I had really great experience using SAT solvers on these machines. It was a dual socket 80 core ampere system https://twitter.com/Anno0770/status/1527414408242155523?t=AVFl4225qXYWGZXsc_Cl7w&s=19 https://twitter.com/Anno0770/status/1527414408242155523?t=AV... .
joeig 4y ago
Actually this is Hetzner’s second attempt offering Arm-based dedicated servers. They launched the AX10 model[1] in 2015[2]. It seems like they started to use the “AX” prefix for the AMD-based line later. [1] https://docs.hetzner.com/robot/dedicated-server/general-information/root-server-hardware/ https://docs.hetzner.com/robot/dedicated-server/general-info... [2] https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Guenstige-Rootserver-mit-32-Bit-ARM-Prozessoren-2789321.html https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Guenstige-Rootserver...
spockz 4y ago
I would like to get just a few cores. No need for 80 cores at full time. Primary use case is compiling Java apps to native binaries using graalvm.
- dindresto 4y ago
  I am sure a Hetzner Cloud server offering based on this is a given, might just have to wait until next year.
- weberer 4y ago
  Then wouldn't a VPS be good enough?
- nwh5jg56df 4y ago
  Can't you cross compile these apps?
iasay 4y ago
These guys have been doing it for a while now: https://vboxx.eu/mac-hosting https://vboxx.eu/mac-hosting
- dx034 4y ago
  Hetzner has also been offering arm based macs for a while now. Maybe they don't include them in their definition because technically they're not servers?
  - iasay 4y ago
    They're not really any different to a Sun pizza box and we used them as servers back in the day :)
    - dx034 4y ago
      But I believe the mac mini doesn't have ECC Ram? I've had pretty bad experiences with non-ecc for database servers. It probably doesn't matter as much if you're only processing data where a bit flip isn't problematic or where data isn't stored aftewards (e.g. web server), but for data manipulation I wouldn't use non-ECC.
chmod775 4y ago
Didn't OVH/Soyoustart offer ARM based systems a few years ago? I faintly remember ARM Cortexs back in 2015 or 2016.
fariszr 4y ago
Hmm, I expected it to be cheaper. Maybe when they launch a VPS based on ARM.
throwaway81523 4y ago
Several low end providers have offered Raspberry Pi hosting in EU and elsewhere for quite a while.
dboreham 4y ago
> features the first Arm-based dedicated servers in Europe Not sure in what context these are "first" but Equinix Metal has had ARM servers for...definitely many years. https://metal.equinix.com/product/servers/c3-large-arm64/ https://metal.equinix.com/product/servers/c3-large-arm64/
dpedu 4y ago
Hetzner looks like a great service, and I've heard a lot of good things about them. They now have a US datacenter however they are only offering cloud servers out of it. If they one day offer dedicated servers in the 'states you can bet I'd be a customer. I am fairly unhappy with OVH's ipv6 situation.
- bravetraveler 4y ago
  I've been pretty happy with them! I've been using both dedicated/cloud since before the jump to the US. IPv6 with Hetzner is a little weird, but you do get a full /64 to assign as you see fit. I can't recall exactly but the SLAAC/DHCPv6 situation seemed a little funny. It only matters if you want to configure networking differently (eg: change from NetworkManager to systemd-networkd) In doing so you don't benefit from these profile helpers that come preinstalled, I think essentially making the cloud server its own default gateway (if memory serves) Anyway, I'm also eagerly awaiting US dedicated. While my workloads don't mind the latency to Helsinki, I do
bravetraveler 4y ago
Was really excited to see something more reminiscent of the Scaleway era -- small 4-16 core ARM boxes with modest memory/storage/network Not quite sure how to phrase my reaction. Not really disappointed, but I suppose confused. Something this beefed up I'd probably rather have Epyc
Kukumber 4y ago
They are definitely not the first https://www.ikoula.com/en/dedicated-server/raspberry-pi-4-micro-server https://www.ikoula.com/en/dedicated-server/raspberry-pi-4-mi... Scaleway was the first to offer ARM based servers (non dedicated) https://blog.scaleway.com/scaleway-become-the-first-arm-based-ubuntu-public-cloud-partner/ https://blog.scaleway.com/scaleway-become-the-first-arm-base... (2015)
GekkePrutser 4y ago
This is not true. I had an ARM based server from scaleway in Paris years ago.

234 points by dx034 4y ago

Nullabillity 4y ago

Wasn't this Scaleway's big launch a decade ago? Funny how the world comes full circle eventually…

joyfylbanana 4y ago
These are heavy processors with 80 cores. Scaleway had entirely different proposal, more like RPi's stacked or something. I haven't seen anything like this before so interesting to see if anyone can comment on their performance/stability/etc. Check the specs here: https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/matrix-rx https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/matrix-rx
sschueller 4y ago
Yes, although I think they were shared in vms?
- tecleandor 4y ago
  Shared disk IIRC, not VMs. They had 1U servers full of boards connected to a backplane (or so it seems) [1], but the storage was shared and centralized in a SAN. https://www.cnx-software.com/2015/04/02/scaleway-provides-dedicated-arm-servers-for-10-euros-per-month-0-02-euro-per-hour/ https://www.cnx-software.com/2015/04/02/scaleway-provides-de... Edit: Here are some pics for the ARM modules: https://www.cnx-software.com/2014/12/30/iliads-online-labs-offers-quad-core-armv7-dedicated-servers/ https://www.cnx-software.com/2014/12/30/iliads-online-labs-o...
  - naniwaduni 4y ago
    > They had 1U servers full of boards connected to a backplane (or so it seems) [1], but the storage was shared and centralized in a SAN. This bit was pretty horrific and could seriously cramp your style trying to do things with those servers, too; you had to boot to a provided kernel so they could start up an nbd-client in early boot, which for extra fun you could accidentally kill while the machine was booted, which would probably force a power cycle.
    - tecleandor 4y ago
      Oh, I remember, that was a mess. IIRC there were only certain kernels available and you couldn't build modules (or at least not easily). I think I had problems to enable modules for filesystems or Docker or something like that.
tecleandor 4y ago
Yep! They launched the C1 servers in 2013 and in 2014 they were providing Docker support for them [1]. Of course, those were simple and slow chips and these are 80cores Ampere Altra, but of course, it's not the first dedicated ARM service in Europe. Note: IIRC Scaleway had their C1 servers booting from the network, not local disk, but still... 1: https://blog.scaleway.com/docker-on-c1/ https://blog.scaleway.com/docker-on-c1/
bravetraveler 4y ago
Indeed, it was a little buggy but I truly loved it. I spent way more than I probably should have on fun tiny-ARM clusters... when I was just barely no longer a teenager [and I'm much older now]

zimpenfish 4y ago

"the low price of € 169 a month and € 179 setup fee" Yikes. Although it is 80-core, 128GB, I suppose.

joyfylbanana 4y ago
It is not that pricy if you look at the beefiest intel/amd machines. However you really have to get better performance from these to justify the price. Unless core count is somehow more important to the specific use case.
- rakoo 4y ago
  I suppose a simple server with very little computing (web, irc, stuff like that) should benefit from this
dx034 4y ago
Much cheaper than a comparable x64 machine. But only if you can use 80 cores.
- pjerem 4y ago
  Using 80 (or x) cores is pretty easy in any web (or network) workload where non blocking multi threading is the norm.
adrian_b 4y ago
The prices seem reasonable for a dedicated server. That means a little above EUR 4000 for 2 years, which is around the minimum that would be paid for a server with Epyc or Xeon of similar capacity (when you assemble it yourself, at Dell or HP it would be much more expensive). The equivalence with Epyc/Xeon also depends a lot on the intended applications, for scientific computing a 32 cores/64 threads Epyc/Xeon might have a similar performance, while for a Web server or database server a 64 cores/128 threads Epyc might be needed to exceed the performance of the 80-core Altra CPU, and a server like that might cost as much as 4 years of renting. So if you buy your own server and you use it for at least 5 years, then you would certainly spend much less than when renting. However, renting a server like this can cost less when you are not certain over long-term perspectives and it also has the advantage that there is no large one-time payment.

rvnx 4y ago

Google Cloud offers Ampere servers in multiple regions under label T2A for quite some time now and probably Alibaba Cloud / Huawei Cloud (haven't verified) and others

baobob 4y ago
None of these are European companies. It already matters to some today, but due to policy pushes within Europe over the next 10 years it is going to matter to a whole lot more
- esseti 4y ago
  that's a point that many (too many) people misses right now. it will cause a lot of problem. If someone is able to reproduce (somehow) what AWS / Google does fro cloud, but with an EU company, they will have a lot of new customers very soon.
  - rvnx 4y ago
    It's a common confusion, but when you contract with Google Cloud, the service is provided by "Google Cloud EMEA Limited, Ireland", which is an European company, and when they provide you with a datacenter in Europe they are totally an European company operating in Europe. This is different for example to DigitalOcean LLC, that is a US-entity providing service to European customers (this example has to be verified, but that's what I remember).
    - baobob 4y ago
      This is a distinction that will be increasingly lost on EU regulators, more so than it already is today.
      - waffleiron 4y ago
        It is lost on regulators due to CLOUD act. The parent company still can access the personal data stored by subsidiaries.

lizardactivist 4y ago

Scaleway had their own self-developed ARM boards like 5 years ago with dedicated cores and RAM, although it was mostly for testing and development and was very low price.

IgorPartola 4y ago
And somehow had no support for IPv6.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
julienfr112 4y ago
That was VM if I remember right, not bare metal
- worldofmatthew 4y ago
  It was a dedicated server with 4 ARM Cores.
PaulKeeble 4y ago
It also barely worked at all.
- lizardactivist 4y ago
  User error.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
    IIRC Scaleway discontinued it because they considered it too buggy, so probably not.
    - lizardactivist 4y ago

baobob 4y ago

It doesn't look like there's much margin to be gained with these, the smallest is priced only slightly cheaper than their Ryzen machines on a threads-per-buck basis, but comes with substantially lower memory per thread. It looks like you'd always be better off buying multiples of their Ryzens rather than one of these if your workload supports horizontal partitioning

tecleandor 4y ago
Don't know about the Ryzen vs Ampera performance, but it's probably great if you REALLY need ARM processor, as the selection right now is limited unless you do VMs in Google Cloud or AWS. So whoever does CI/CD, testing, building... for ARM is gonna be grateful for this.

coredog64 4y ago

AWS released a1.metal in EU regions in October 2019: https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/10/introducing-availability-of-amazon-ec2-a1-bare-metal-instances/ https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/10/introduci...

Youden 4y ago
Those aren't dedicated servers. They use a hypervisor [0]. [0]: https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/instance-types/a1/ https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/instance-types/a1/
- tecleandor 4y ago
  I think there's a1 (virtualized) and a1.metal (bare metal). Although I think the metal versions also include Nitro hardware. But not my specialty.
  - pclmulqdq 4y ago
    The metal versions use the Nitro card, but run all of the virtualization on the Nitro card, so there is no hypervisor running on the machine. VMWare has had ESXi doing similar virtualization with the help of switches for a while too (although I think ESXi still has a tiny hypervisor).
    - bogomipz 4y ago
      Isn't there still a hypervisor present though but rather than the hypervisor running on a general purpose CPU it's running on the Nitro chipset? There's still a type 1 hypervisor involved no? How else would the hypercalls from the guests work?
      - mcspiff 4y ago
        There is no hypercalls. Your operating system is running directly on the CPU, same as regular bare metal servers.

hamburglar 4y ago

OCI sells Arm-based bare metal servers too.

TradingPlaces 4y ago

That’s the 3rd big win for Ampere. Already in Google and Oracles clouds

adrian_b 4y ago
Also in Microsoft Azure. So this is 4th win. The main companies that are missing from their customer list are Amazon and Alibaba. Both Amazon and Alibaba, have their own 64-big-cores or 128-medium-cores ARM server CPU designs (the 80 or 128 cores in Altra are medium cores), and both designs are superior to Altra in performance and also in ISA level support (Amazon Graviton 3 supports Armv8.4-A with SVE, while Alibaba Yitian 710 supports Armv9.0-A with SVE2). It remains to be seen whether the custom ARM cores on which the Ampere design team works for their next CPU generation will succeed to leapfrog the CPUs of Amazon and Alibaba (which are using cores licensed from the ARM company).
raverbashing 4y ago
Any Ampere vs M1/M2 comparisons I wonder...
- TradingPlaces 4y ago
  Quickly, what I found on Geekbench browser. 80 core Altra vs. Macbook Pro M2: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/compare/15913010?baseline=14848780 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/compare/15913010?baseli... Pretty much as I expected with M2 winning single core and Altra winning multi. But if you look at the individual multicore tests, certain ones the M2 seems to be optimized for (camera, PDF rendering), and it blows away Altra. Probably the audio-video-photo units on the M2. Really not the best comparison, imo, because they are built for different ends. Still interesting

ricardobeat 4y ago

Totally off topic, but why on earth is text selection disabled in this page on mobile? I was excited to share an excerpt with my team and am just frustrated now.

tonightstoast 4y ago
That is super odd - I’m wondering if they just messed up some CSS. Another win for reader mode I suppose.
- codetrotter 4y ago
  Reader mode saves the day :)
codetrotter 4y ago
Here you go. > RX-Line: Pushing the envelop of parallelization - Hetzner Online GmbH > 19 July 2022 > RX-Line: Pushing the envelop of parallelization > The new RX-line is now available and features the first Arm-based dedicated servers in Europe. The servers house an Ampere ® Altra ® Q80-30 SoC with Arm64 architecture, which gives you 80 cores of single-threaded processing power. > The new line includes two models. The RX170 is the smaller model of the two, but it still comes with 128 GB DDR4 registered ECC memory modules and 2x 960 GB NVMe SSD at the low price of € 169 a month and € 179 setup fee. The RX220, on the other hand, comes with impressive 256 GB DDR4 registered ECC memory modules and 2 x 3.84 TB NVMe SSD at the fair price of € 219 a month and a setup fee of € 229. > Where is the catch, you wonder? Only a few servers are currently available. As we work through ramping the supply chain for the RX Line, be the first to get an Ampere-based server. Over the next few months, expect further announcements of improved availability as we scale out this exciting product line. > So what are you waiting for? Order yours now, and start saving time and money on your IT infrastructure. > Check it out now > All prices excl. VAT.
MichaelCollins 4y ago
It's another case of a webpage working better with javascript disabled by default. Disabling javascript fixes more websites than it breaks.

blfr 4y ago

I have had an arm-based dedicated server with OVH (old SoYouStart line) for over four years now: processor : 0 model name : ARMv7 Processor rev 1 (v7l) It's in Gravelins.

worldofmatthew 4y ago
The old storage server with Dual Core 1GHZ ARM CPUs?
- blfr 4y ago
  This one, yes.
  - worldofmatthew 4y ago
    Those came out before cheaper VPSs with that storage level came out.
eptcyka 4y ago
So they should rephrase it to mean that they're the first to offer ARMv8 dedicated servers?
- jbverschoor 4y ago
  No.. they should just rephrase that they offer arm based dedicated servers instead of trying to reach the headlines
  - eptcyka 4y ago
    I'd say having access to dedicated ARMv8 in Europe is headline worthy.
    - nwh5jg56df 4y ago
      Agree, some interesting problems require it

up6w6 4y ago

A comparison between the mentioned Ampere Altra Q80-30 and AWS Graviton2: https://blog.cloudflare.com/arms-race-ampere-altra-takes-on-aws-graviton2/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/arms-race-ampere-altra-takes-on-... A similar instance to the RX220 at Equinix (bare metal) would cost around $1800/month [1]. (8x Hetzner's price) [1] https://metal.equinix.com/product/servers/c3-large-arm64/ https://metal.equinix.com/product/servers/c3-large-arm64/

BonoboIO 4y ago
I m a die hard fan of Hetzner, but well I m biased, I sleek German and live in Europe. Their prices are unmatched and their service is awesome. The got Mac Mini M1 Servers as low as 50€. And big dedicated servers. In my company we use 80% hetzner.
- brian_cunnie 4y ago
  I'm a die-hard Hetzner fan, too. I have personal servers on AWS, Azure, Digital Ocean, GCP, and Vultr, but I think my Hetzner server is my favorite & provides the biggest bang for the buck. Oh, and I'm American, I speak English, and I live in San Francisco.
dx034 4y ago
2x25G though vs 1G at Hetzner (max 10G for 39€ extra). With that many cores, I guess it's easy to saturate 10G, 2x25G sounds much better.

fanf2 4y ago

Mythic Beasts have had ARM-based dedicated servers in Europe since 2017 (over 5 years ago). They have many Raspberry Pi with POE and NAS (no SD cards). (Mythic Beasts also host the Raspberry Pi web site.) https://www.mythic-beasts.com/blog/2017/03/02/hosting-a-website-on-a-raspberry-pi-with-ipv6-and-ssl-part-1/ https://www.mythic-beasts.com/blog/2017/03/02/hosting-a-webs...

lma21 4y ago

They should up the network to 10 GBit/s. Given the price and specs of those servers, one can build a powerful bare-metal cluster there...

PaywallBuster 4y ago
Would be good if they offer it upfront or as an add-on during order but currently you can request it as referred here https://docs.hetzner.com/robot/dedicated-server/general-information/root-server-hardware/#miscellaneous https://docs.hetzner.com/robot/dedicated-server/general-info...
- nixgeek 4y ago
  Right now the option you’d usually use for 10G to the internet doesn’t say it supports RX-line servers. If you search for “10G dedicated uplink” and look in the rightmost column it covers what they will support requests on. I’ve successfully used it on AX and SX many times and I’d be happy to see Hetzner also support RX!
- dx034 4y ago
  I'd also probably order the 10G for that price if it was just a checkbox in the order process. But opening a ticket later (and downtime for the server), or waiting substantially longer for the server to be available isn't really an option for me. I'm wondering if they deliberately do that because their switches couldn't handle too many 10G servers?

mnd999 4y ago

Pretty sure mythic beasts has been offering raspberry pi servers for some time.

drcongo 4y ago

Hope this filters down to their cloud / VM offerings.

onphonenow 4y ago

johnklos 4y ago

Misleading title. "Hetzner to offer *their* first ARM-based"...

layer8 4y ago
Who else already offers dedicated ARM-based servers in Europe? Just curious. Edit: …except Hetzner themselves who already did in 2015 as noted upthread.
- mnw21cam 4y ago
  There have been various hosting services that have hosted Raspberry Pi units - some of them even did this for free. I submit this in the best HN spirit of technically-correct.
  - layer8 4y ago
    The best kind of correct. ;)
- puzzlingcaptcha 4y ago
  Scaleway did. It was some Marvell Armada SoC IIRC.
- JeanMarcS 4y ago
  >cat /proc/cpuinfo >processor : 0 >model name : ARMv7 Processor rev 1 (v7l) This is on a server I have at OVH (SoYouStart to be accurate) from july 2018
- maeln 4y ago
  Scaleway / Online.net
- openplatypus 4y ago
  OVH, Scaleway
- dilyevsky 4y ago
  Equinix Metal does with 1-y commit

miohtama 4y ago

What are the best payloads for these servers? What applications can utilise 80 ARM cores well?

jcuenod 4y ago
crypto miners of course ;)
- miohtama 4y ago
  I do not think any relevant cryptocurrency is using CPUs anymore. Further, most of the top blockchains now run on proof-of-stake consensus.
freemint 4y ago
I had really great experience using SAT solvers on these machines. It was a dual socket 80 core ampere system https://twitter.com/Anno0770/status/1527414408242155523?t=AVFl4225qXYWGZXsc_Cl7w&s=19 https://twitter.com/Anno0770/status/1527414408242155523?t=AV... .

joeig 4y ago

Actually this is Hetzner’s second attempt offering Arm-based dedicated servers. They launched the AX10 model[1] in 2015[2]. It seems like they started to use the “AX” prefix for the AMD-based line later. [1] https://docs.hetzner.com/robot/dedicated-server/general-information/root-server-hardware/ https://docs.hetzner.com/robot/dedicated-server/general-info... [2] https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Guenstige-Rootserver-mit-32-Bit-ARM-Prozessoren-2789321.html https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Guenstige-Rootserver...

spockz 4y ago

I would like to get just a few cores. No need for 80 cores at full time. Primary use case is compiling Java apps to native binaries using graalvm.

dindresto 4y ago
I am sure a Hetzner Cloud server offering based on this is a given, might just have to wait until next year.
weberer 4y ago
Then wouldn't a VPS be good enough?
nwh5jg56df 4y ago
Can't you cross compile these apps?

iasay 4y ago

These guys have been doing it for a while now: https://vboxx.eu/mac-hosting https://vboxx.eu/mac-hosting

dx034 4y ago
Hetzner has also been offering arm based macs for a while now. Maybe they don't include them in their definition because technically they're not servers?
- iasay 4y ago
  They're not really any different to a Sun pizza box and we used them as servers back in the day :)
  - dx034 4y ago
    But I believe the mac mini doesn't have ECC Ram? I've had pretty bad experiences with non-ecc for database servers. It probably doesn't matter as much if you're only processing data where a bit flip isn't problematic or where data isn't stored aftewards (e.g. web server), but for data manipulation I wouldn't use non-ECC.

chmod775 4y ago

Didn't OVH/Soyoustart offer ARM based systems a few years ago? I faintly remember ARM Cortexs back in 2015 or 2016.

fariszr 4y ago

Hmm, I expected it to be cheaper. Maybe when they launch a VPS based on ARM.

throwaway81523 4y ago

Several low end providers have offered Raspberry Pi hosting in EU and elsewhere for quite a while.

dboreham 4y ago

> features the first Arm-based dedicated servers in Europe Not sure in what context these are "first" but Equinix Metal has had ARM servers for...definitely many years. https://metal.equinix.com/product/servers/c3-large-arm64/ https://metal.equinix.com/product/servers/c3-large-arm64/

dpedu 4y ago

Hetzner looks like a great service, and I've heard a lot of good things about them. They now have a US datacenter however they are only offering cloud servers out of it. If they one day offer dedicated servers in the 'states you can bet I'd be a customer. I am fairly unhappy with OVH's ipv6 situation.

bravetraveler 4y ago
I've been pretty happy with them! I've been using both dedicated/cloud since before the jump to the US. IPv6 with Hetzner is a little weird, but you do get a full /64 to assign as you see fit. I can't recall exactly but the SLAAC/DHCPv6 situation seemed a little funny. It only matters if you want to configure networking differently (eg: change from NetworkManager to systemd-networkd) In doing so you don't benefit from these profile helpers that come preinstalled, I think essentially making the cloud server its own default gateway (if memory serves) Anyway, I'm also eagerly awaiting US dedicated. While my workloads don't mind the latency to Helsinki, I do

bravetraveler 4y ago

Was really excited to see something more reminiscent of the Scaleway era -- small 4-16 core ARM boxes with modest memory/storage/network Not quite sure how to phrase my reaction. Not really disappointed, but I suppose confused. Something this beefed up I'd probably rather have Epyc

Kukumber 4y ago

They are definitely not the first https://www.ikoula.com/en/dedicated-server/raspberry-pi-4-micro-server https://www.ikoula.com/en/dedicated-server/raspberry-pi-4-mi... Scaleway was the first to offer ARM based servers (non dedicated) https://blog.scaleway.com/scaleway-become-the-first-arm-based-ubuntu-public-cloud-partner/ https://blog.scaleway.com/scaleway-become-the-first-arm-base... (2015)

GekkePrutser 4y ago

This is not true. I had an ARM based server from scaleway in Paris years ago.