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Republic Wireless, You Have a Strange Definition of 'Unlimited'

14 points by boh 15y ago

sounds 15y ago
I didn't upvote this article, because Unlimited is truly Unlimited -- as long as you're using wifi. That's the point: you have a cell network available, seamlessly. The old incumbent carriers with their caps and rates and bag of tricks. But if you can find a wifi connection, you're home free.
- wccrawford 15y ago
  The one advertisement is very misleading, but other than that... This is actually quite a tempting plan. Well, it would be, if I could use my current Android phone.
sbarre 15y ago
This reminds me of the old days of "unlimited" dial-up connections. I worked for an ISP that offered such a plan. You were never charged any overage fees, and there were no hard caps on your monthly hours, but we reserved the right to limit access on a per-case basis for heavy users, and to prioritize usage (back when we had user-to-line ratios) to limit heavy users during peak hours to ensure all customers could use the service. We were very clear about this in our signup sheet too (it wasn't buried in the T&C). It works well for the 90% of the people who have "regular" usage patterns ("regular" being defined by the provider) and just don't want to have to keep an eye on their usage. It doesn't work for the 10% of heavy usage customers, or the folks who think the provider should be held to their own personal definition of "unlimited" (i.e. "unlimited means I should be able to stay connected 24/7 all month long!!"). All that said, I think Republic Wireless should be a little clearer about what unlimited means. They're trying, but I think it's still a bit vague at the moment.
- nomdeplume 15y ago
  unlimited: adj- without limits or bounds
- jtreminio 15y ago
  (i.e. "unlimited means I should be able to stay connected 24/7 all month long!!"). Yes, that sounds like unlimited to me. A buffet is unlimited. A small 90lb old lady will eat maybe half a plate. Then come some big 400lb fellas who clean off 8 or 9 plates full. Either one should be accommodated when it's called "unlimited". Otherwise, call it what it is: service with a high limit.
  - sbarre 15y ago
    Nope that's what YOU think it means. See my answer above. We never charged anyone for extra hours, but we did not _guarantee_ that you could get online and stay online as much as you want. Take your buffet example: You can eat all you want from what is on the tables, no matter how much that is, but there's no guarantee of an infinite supply of food. If you eat all the pancakes, they are not _obligated_ to supply you with more.
- mikeash 15y ago
  > It doesn't work for the 10% of heavy usage customers, or the folks who think the provider should be held to their own personal definition of "unlimited" (i.e. "unlimited means I should be able to stay connected 24/7 all month long!!"). How is that their own personal definition? Isn't that what the word "unlimited" means? It is the carriers and ISPs who have started using their own definitions of "unlimited", whereby it actually means "limited". I get that ISPs need to establish limits. I just wish they would say so. It should be considered false advertising to market any service as "unlimited" when it's not.
  - sbarre 15y ago
    This is exactly what I mean. Unlimited meant that there were no preset limits to the number of hours you were allowed to use, and there was no surcharge for hours used. It did _not_ mean that you were _guaranteed_ to be allowed access 24/7 all month long. I think that's a fair definition of "unlimited". We were very clear about this, and said so in our ad fine print, and very prominently during the sign-up process.
    - mikeash 15y ago
      "Preset" is a red herring, limits are contrary to "unlimited" whether they're set in advance or decided on the fly. Certainly there's no guaranteed access, but if you're artificially limiting their access, as opposed to just having equipment difficulties or whatever, then that's hardly unlimited. If you're kicking off heavy users, I think that's not at all a fair definition of unlimited. I appreciate that you were up front about the policy and think that's exactly what you should be doing, but disagree with characterizing this as somehow compatible with "unlimited". If "unlimited" is allowed to have these limits, then what exactly does it mean?
      - sbarre 15y ago
        You are free to interpret the word in your own way I guess, but I don't think our definition was unfair or inaccurate. I think you are confusing "unlimited" with "infinite". By your argument, one could say that we didn't offer "unlimited" service because there are a maximum of 744 hours in a month and hey that's not equal to "unlimited". Again this comes back to different valid interpretations of a word, and since we provided the service, ours won. Try going to McDonalds and each time you're there arguing that their "large" fries don't meet your definition of "large". Maybe bring a "large" garbage bag and say "THIS is what large means" and ask them to fill that up, and see how far you get. Anyways, you aren't making any new arguments that customers didn't give me 15 years ago..
- dlikhten 15y ago
  They mean: Unlimited WiFi usage. Since EVERYTHING is routed through wifi whenever possible, you can call, text, browse without any alternative usage patterns. Also no overages. However if you are a very heavy user, they will terminate your contract in favor of just directing you to another plan. Here's the kicker: This may be good enough for say 30% of people. So why not. It may not be for you, or it may.
- gallerytungsten 15y ago
  They can't be clearer, because, I suspect they don't know themselves. I imagine they will analyze usage patterns and decide which 10% or so of customers they want to get rid of every so often, based on a per-user P&L type of analysis.
marcomonteiro 15y ago
I don't see anything misleading in Republic's marketing. I think they've made it pretty clear. This isn't a cellular company, it's a VoIP company that relies on wifi and happens to fall back on Sprint's CDMA network when there isn't wifi available. Their service is unlimited but the fallback cellular network isn't.
squeee 15y ago
Their limitations make sense, you just have to look at your own usage and decide if it will work for you. I don't feel like they are hiding anything, I read through their entire site yesterday and it was all there in black and white. The only concern I do have is how well will actually work? Does it switch seamlessly when I leave the range of my wifi like the site claims. A co-worker signed up and has one on the way, so we will find out soon. At least they are more upfront about the "unlimited" rules than other carriers like say AT&T. Even Sprint is close to killing off their unlimited plans.
- mikeash 15y ago
  I thought AT&T didn't have "unlimited" plans anymore. At least with my iPhone, the data limit is right there in the plan name, with overages being charged a reasonable amount extra. Here's a crazy idea for the carriers: if there are limits, don't call your plan "unlimited".
earle 15y ago
Airplanes were an amazing invention, but turns out its hard to run a profitable airline!
drivebyacct2 15y ago
Sounds like it's comparable to "unlimited" cheap web hosting resellers. For most people who get suckered in by "unlimited", it's probably fine. For the people that might actually need many resources, it will run into a wall quickly.
- betterth 15y ago
  That's actually an incredibly poor analogy: Republic is upfront about their limitations, cheap web hosts by default are not. Republic is saying "We're a wifi company that uses Sprint 3G as an unfortunate but necessary safety net, so you always have access". For users that require a cell network 24/7 and have little to no access to wifi -- Republic isn't for them. They admit that up front and say that they'd love to help you find a traditional 3G/4G network. Hosting companies are openly deceiving you by making promises that they knowingly won't keep for certain users. Republic isn't deceiving anyone -- they say right up front that they're a wifi network looking for wifi customers. It's not deception if it's literally your business model.
  - drivebyacct2 15y ago
    It's comment thread on an article all about the double-speak occuring with relation to the word "unlimited", when it's anything but. I don't think it's wrong to call that deceptive. Besides, it's not that "unlimited" providers don;'t provide unlimited services... it's just that they are not reliable or consistent.
InclinedPlane 15y ago
Correction: they have an industry standard definition of unlimited. (Doesn't make it any better though.)
tatsuke95 15y ago
Now lets see some of these mainstream tech media outlets comb through the terms of use for the major service providers looking for "gotchas". I'll bet there are quite a few there. Republic isn't the be-all solution to our shitty carrier woes, but it's progress. A rag like PC World should be on board promoting this sort of advancement, rather than spreading FUD.

14 points by boh 15y ago

I didn't upvote this article, because Unlimited is truly Unlimited -- as long as you're using wifi. That's the point: you have a cell network available, seamlessly. The old incumbent carriers with their caps and rates and bag of tricks. But if you can find a wifi connection, you're home free.

wccrawford 15y ago
The one advertisement is very misleading, but other than that... This is actually quite a tempting plan. Well, it would be, if I could use my current Android phone.

sbarre 15y ago

This reminds me of the old days of "unlimited" dial-up connections. I worked for an ISP that offered such a plan. You were never charged any overage fees, and there were no hard caps on your monthly hours, but we reserved the right to limit access on a per-case basis for heavy users, and to prioritize usage (back when we had user-to-line ratios) to limit heavy users during peak hours to ensure all customers could use the service. We were very clear about this in our signup sheet too (it wasn't buried in the T&C). It works well for the 90% of the people who have "regular" usage patterns ("regular" being defined by the provider) and just don't want to have to keep an eye on their usage. It doesn't work for the 10% of heavy usage customers, or the folks who think the provider should be held to their own personal definition of "unlimited" (i.e. "unlimited means I should be able to stay connected 24/7 all month long!!"). All that said, I think Republic Wireless should be a little clearer about what unlimited means. They're trying, but I think it's still a bit vague at the moment.

nomdeplume 15y ago
unlimited: adj- without limits or bounds
jtreminio 15y ago
(i.e. "unlimited means I should be able to stay connected 24/7 all month long!!"). Yes, that sounds like unlimited to me. A buffet is unlimited. A small 90lb old lady will eat maybe half a plate. Then come some big 400lb fellas who clean off 8 or 9 plates full. Either one should be accommodated when it's called "unlimited". Otherwise, call it what it is: service with a high limit.
- sbarre 15y ago
  Nope that's what YOU think it means. See my answer above. We never charged anyone for extra hours, but we did not _guarantee_ that you could get online and stay online as much as you want. Take your buffet example: You can eat all you want from what is on the tables, no matter how much that is, but there's no guarantee of an infinite supply of food. If you eat all the pancakes, they are not _obligated_ to supply you with more.
mikeash 15y ago
> It doesn't work for the 10% of heavy usage customers, or the folks who think the provider should be held to their own personal definition of "unlimited" (i.e. "unlimited means I should be able to stay connected 24/7 all month long!!"). How is that their own personal definition? Isn't that what the word "unlimited" means? It is the carriers and ISPs who have started using their own definitions of "unlimited", whereby it actually means "limited". I get that ISPs need to establish limits. I just wish they would say so. It should be considered false advertising to market any service as "unlimited" when it's not.
- sbarre 15y ago
  This is exactly what I mean. Unlimited meant that there were no preset limits to the number of hours you were allowed to use, and there was no surcharge for hours used. It did _not_ mean that you were _guaranteed_ to be allowed access 24/7 all month long. I think that's a fair definition of "unlimited". We were very clear about this, and said so in our ad fine print, and very prominently during the sign-up process.
  - mikeash 15y ago
    "Preset" is a red herring, limits are contrary to "unlimited" whether they're set in advance or decided on the fly. Certainly there's no guaranteed access, but if you're artificially limiting their access, as opposed to just having equipment difficulties or whatever, then that's hardly unlimited. If you're kicking off heavy users, I think that's not at all a fair definition of unlimited. I appreciate that you were up front about the policy and think that's exactly what you should be doing, but disagree with characterizing this as somehow compatible with "unlimited". If "unlimited" is allowed to have these limits, then what exactly does it mean?
    - sbarre 15y ago
      You are free to interpret the word in your own way I guess, but I don't think our definition was unfair or inaccurate. I think you are confusing "unlimited" with "infinite". By your argument, one could say that we didn't offer "unlimited" service because there are a maximum of 744 hours in a month and hey that's not equal to "unlimited". Again this comes back to different valid interpretations of a word, and since we provided the service, ours won. Try going to McDonalds and each time you're there arguing that their "large" fries don't meet your definition of "large". Maybe bring a "large" garbage bag and say "THIS is what large means" and ask them to fill that up, and see how far you get. Anyways, you aren't making any new arguments that customers didn't give me 15 years ago..
dlikhten 15y ago
They mean: Unlimited WiFi usage. Since EVERYTHING is routed through wifi whenever possible, you can call, text, browse without any alternative usage patterns. Also no overages. However if you are a very heavy user, they will terminate your contract in favor of just directing you to another plan. Here's the kicker: This may be good enough for say 30% of people. So why not. It may not be for you, or it may.
gallerytungsten 15y ago
They can't be clearer, because, I suspect they don't know themselves. I imagine they will analyze usage patterns and decide which 10% or so of customers they want to get rid of every so often, based on a per-user P&L type of analysis.

marcomonteiro 15y ago

I don't see anything misleading in Republic's marketing. I think they've made it pretty clear. This isn't a cellular company, it's a VoIP company that relies on wifi and happens to fall back on Sprint's CDMA network when there isn't wifi available. Their service is unlimited but the fallback cellular network isn't.

squeee 15y ago

Their limitations make sense, you just have to look at your own usage and decide if it will work for you. I don't feel like they are hiding anything, I read through their entire site yesterday and it was all there in black and white. The only concern I do have is how well will actually work? Does it switch seamlessly when I leave the range of my wifi like the site claims. A co-worker signed up and has one on the way, so we will find out soon. At least they are more upfront about the "unlimited" rules than other carriers like say AT&T. Even Sprint is close to killing off their unlimited plans.

mikeash 15y ago
I thought AT&T didn't have "unlimited" plans anymore. At least with my iPhone, the data limit is right there in the plan name, with overages being charged a reasonable amount extra. Here's a crazy idea for the carriers: if there are limits, don't call your plan "unlimited".

earle 15y ago

Airplanes were an amazing invention, but turns out its hard to run a profitable airline!

drivebyacct2 15y ago

Sounds like it's comparable to "unlimited" cheap web hosting resellers. For most people who get suckered in by "unlimited", it's probably fine. For the people that might actually need many resources, it will run into a wall quickly.

betterth 15y ago
That's actually an incredibly poor analogy: Republic is upfront about their limitations, cheap web hosts by default are not. Republic is saying "We're a wifi company that uses Sprint 3G as an unfortunate but necessary safety net, so you always have access". For users that require a cell network 24/7 and have little to no access to wifi -- Republic isn't for them. They admit that up front and say that they'd love to help you find a traditional 3G/4G network. Hosting companies are openly deceiving you by making promises that they knowingly won't keep for certain users. Republic isn't deceiving anyone -- they say right up front that they're a wifi network looking for wifi customers. It's not deception if it's literally your business model.
- drivebyacct2 15y ago
  It's comment thread on an article all about the double-speak occuring with relation to the word "unlimited", when it's anything but. I don't think it's wrong to call that deceptive. Besides, it's not that "unlimited" providers don;'t provide unlimited services... it's just that they are not reliable or consistent.

InclinedPlane 15y ago

Correction: they have an industry standard definition of unlimited. (Doesn't make it any better though.)

tatsuke95 15y ago

Now lets see some of these mainstream tech media outlets comb through the terms of use for the major service providers looking for "gotchas". I'll bet there are quite a few there. Republic isn't the be-all solution to our shitty carrier woes, but it's progress. A rag like PC World should be on board promoting this sort of advancement, rather than spreading FUD.