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People do needs things. And people do want choice and information. Marketing is no more evil than programming or any role. All roles have people use it detrime

People do needs things. And people do want choice and information. Marketing is no more evil than programming or any role. All roles have people use it detrimentally and unethically. I'm a marketer and only once felt less ethical in my role (pushing credit cards for a bank group) but most of the time is good work, promoting decent products to people as an alternate to the popular choice, which in itself drives competition and product improvement. While I would personally love to see better ad regulation in the world to do thinks like reduce billboards and tracking etc I still think it clear the world would be a worse place if companies were not allowed to promote their product.

_aavaa_ 4y ago
I agree that companies must have the legal right to provide potential customers with information about their products. But essentially every advertisement I’ve ever seen is so far removed from “providing information” that characterizing them as such is a joke. What they provide is a made up story of how good your life will be with this product (it bad it will be without it). That isn’t providing information, it’s manipulating people.
- Gustomaximus 4y ago
  > But essentially every advertisement I’ve ever seen is so far removed from “providing information” that characterizing them as such is a joke. I would say this is more what you notice. A huge amount of advertising is about brand awareness. Logos on sports teams etc Awareness is often not telling people anything, only trying to become part of someone's consideration set when they price compare 3 car insurances type thing. Or much of the comparison sites are paid ads essentially but they do it in a way that provides good information. Or if you watch Marques Brownlee type youtubers, a bunch of what they do is an ad but their brand is to give honest opinions while paid. Or how many ads simply show a product and a price type display? Absolutely some ads are manipulating, but I suspect if you consciously look around you'll see many if not most are not manipulating, and your conscious brain seems to remember the ones you dislike hence to view it is the vast majority. Anyway feel free to hate marketing :) I would really like to see less outdoor ads and better regulation in general but at the risk of being a bit specific to your wording I felt I needed to show another side to that view.
jrm4 4y ago
You're putting up a bit of a strawman, early. I didn't say it "should be banned," at least not yet. It is possible for something to be evil -- or let's put it lighter -- a net negative, and still one could see that trying to ban it is a bad thing. Let's try it this way: Does "marketing," as a paid business practice, cause more harm than good? (NGL, when someone argues that their thing isn't evil by arguing e.g. "any practice can be good or evil" and not a direct and clear explanation of why their thing is good, big red flags.)
- Gustomaximus 4y ago
  > Does "marketing," as a paid business practice, cause more harm than good? I would have criticised it more as a false dilemma than strawman :) But I did that because I think it shows exactly your question. Imagine a world where there was zero marketing. I suspect you'd see far more entrenched companies e.g. as how does the new start-up get the word out fast enough to not flame out while they hope the market realises they exist. Far less competition as companies cant promote their prices leading to the entrenched companies charging higher margins and all that entails. It democratised many services like watching videos or email as this is ad funded so all people can utilise these services rather than the people that can afford.... though I guess you could position this is a bad thing due to the rise of social media. There's a few... how much better do you think the world would be without marketing?

_aavaa_ 4y ago

I agree that companies must have the legal right to provide potential customers with information about their products. But essentially every advertisement I’ve ever seen is so far removed from “providing information” that characterizing them as such is a joke. What they provide is a made up story of how good your life will be with this product (it bad it will be without it). That isn’t providing information, it’s manipulating people.

Gustomaximus 4y ago
> But essentially every advertisement I’ve ever seen is so far removed from “providing information” that characterizing them as such is a joke. I would say this is more what you notice. A huge amount of advertising is about brand awareness. Logos on sports teams etc Awareness is often not telling people anything, only trying to become part of someone's consideration set when they price compare 3 car insurances type thing. Or much of the comparison sites are paid ads essentially but they do it in a way that provides good information. Or if you watch Marques Brownlee type youtubers, a bunch of what they do is an ad but their brand is to give honest opinions while paid. Or how many ads simply show a product and a price type display? Absolutely some ads are manipulating, but I suspect if you consciously look around you'll see many if not most are not manipulating, and your conscious brain seems to remember the ones you dislike hence to view it is the vast majority. Anyway feel free to hate marketing :) I would really like to see less outdoor ads and better regulation in general but at the risk of being a bit specific to your wording I felt I needed to show another side to that view.

jrm4 4y ago

You're putting up a bit of a strawman, early. I didn't say it "should be banned," at least not yet. It is possible for something to be evil -- or let's put it lighter -- a net negative, and still one could see that trying to ban it is a bad thing. Let's try it this way: Does "marketing," as a paid business practice, cause more harm than good? (NGL, when someone argues that their thing isn't evil by arguing e.g. "any practice can be good or evil" and not a direct and clear explanation of why their thing is good, big red flags.)

Gustomaximus 4y ago
> Does "marketing," as a paid business practice, cause more harm than good? I would have criticised it more as a false dilemma than strawman :) But I did that because I think it shows exactly your question. Imagine a world where there was zero marketing. I suspect you'd see far more entrenched companies e.g. as how does the new start-up get the word out fast enough to not flame out while they hope the market realises they exist. Far less competition as companies cant promote their prices leading to the entrenched companies charging higher margins and all that entails. It democratised many services like watching videos or email as this is ad funded so all people can utilise these services rather than the people that can afford.... though I guess you could position this is a bad thing due to the rise of social media. There's a few... how much better do you think the world would be without marketing?