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> The only use cases for which the MBA is not sustainable are Pro ones e.g. 3D rendering, CFDs etc so it's hard to see how Apple is being unreasonable here. It

> The only use cases for which the MBA is not sustainable are Pro ones e.g. 3D rendering, CFDs etc so it's hard to see how Apple is being unreasonable here. It's not about Apple being unreasonable. It's just that what you call "Pro use cases" could reasonably be done with the Air if it had slightly better thermal management in the same way an iPad Pro running macOs could replace a current MacBook Air. Apple likes to use these design decisions to segment its markets.

_aavaa_ 4y ago
Yes, that's the point. The Air is targeted at the people who don't need to do those things and would rather the laptop be smaller and lighter. A MacBook Air with better thermal management is an entry level MacBook Pro.
- WastingMyTime89 4y ago
  No, that's not the point. The Air is intentionally gimped by inefficient thermal management so people who want better performance have to buy a Pro. Apple could make the Air performs close to the entry level MacBook Pro but doesn't because that's how they segment. They have been quite good at introducing products which can compete on price while protecting their higher margin sales. It's a very common practice for Apple. In the same way their laptop and tablet offerings have been converging for years from a technical point of view but they intentionally limit what the tablet can do so has to not cannibalise their laptop sales.
  - Tagbert 4y ago
    If you prioritize sustained load performance, then the pro machines are designed for that. If you have less need for that or don't care about a mild slowdown on the rare occasions where you can push it into throttle territory, then the Air would be good for you. I would gladly trade away some maximum performance in order to get a cheaper, lighter machine that doesn't need a fan blowing. This is not about "gimping" the Air. it is about tailoring the balance of features, performance, and cost to meet the needs of different segments of customers.
    - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
      > This is not about "gimping" the Air. it is about tailoring the balance of features, performance, and cost to meet the needs of different segments of customers. Yes but it’s pretty obvious when you look at the design that Apple is intentionally limiting the performance of its cheaper products so as to not hurt the Pro line too much.
      - Tagbert 4y ago
        The 13 MBP with M2 is almost the same price as the M2 MBA. The MBP is a little more performance when running continuous heavy processing due to its fan. The MBP is also thicker, heavier and has a fan running. The MBA runs almost as fast but is lighter and never has a fan. If you look at the Six Colors review, they show some throttling at 10 minutes on a Cinebench test. The MBP with a fan scored 8638 and the MBA without scored 8211. That kind of difference is not worth adding a fan or putting in some heat pads that make the case get hotter. It just means that the most portable Mac is ever so slightly slower than the low end Pro Mac. I'm happy with that. https://i0.wp.com/sixcolors.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/throttling-chart-2.png?ssl=1 https://i0.wp.com/sixcolors.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/t... https://sixcolors.com/post/2022/07/m2-macbook-air-review-a-new-era/ https://sixcolors.com/post/2022/07/m2-macbook-air-review-a-n...
  - _aavaa_ 4y ago
    I disagree. It's not "inefficient" since the laptop is not meant for sustained heavy loads. That's a trade-off, not a gimp. Want heavy loads, get the thicker and heavier one with active cooling. Don't care about heavy loads, great have this one that is skinnier and lighter.
    - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
      Once again you are ignoring my point. The Air could be better without active cooling. The passive cooling solution in place is intentionally poorer that it could be so as to limit the performance. That’s fairly standard for Apple. It doesn’t mean that the Air is a bad laptop just that it’s purposefully held back by Apple design choice. I know Apple sells a model tailored to heavier load. The point of limiting the performance of the Air is to not cannibalise its sell numbers too much.
      - _aavaa_ 4y ago
        I’m not entirely convinced that they could have done so without another trade off. Yes they could have made the heat transfer from the cpu/gpu to the chassis better. So it could make better use of that bottom plate to dissipate heat. But the cost of that would have been a laptop that is warmer/hotter to the touch. Idk how much hotter it would be, but I’m sure there’ll be a YouTuber or two who will test it out and less us know. Maybe it’s only 1-2C, maybe it’s 15-20. It’d accept 1-2C, but I would not accept 15-20.

_aavaa_ 4y ago

Yes, that's the point. The Air is targeted at the people who don't need to do those things and would rather the laptop be smaller and lighter. A MacBook Air with better thermal management is an entry level MacBook Pro.

WastingMyTime89 4y ago
No, that's not the point. The Air is intentionally gimped by inefficient thermal management so people who want better performance have to buy a Pro. Apple could make the Air performs close to the entry level MacBook Pro but doesn't because that's how they segment. They have been quite good at introducing products which can compete on price while protecting their higher margin sales. It's a very common practice for Apple. In the same way their laptop and tablet offerings have been converging for years from a technical point of view but they intentionally limit what the tablet can do so has to not cannibalise their laptop sales.
- Tagbert 4y ago
  If you prioritize sustained load performance, then the pro machines are designed for that. If you have less need for that or don't care about a mild slowdown on the rare occasions where you can push it into throttle territory, then the Air would be good for you. I would gladly trade away some maximum performance in order to get a cheaper, lighter machine that doesn't need a fan blowing. This is not about "gimping" the Air. it is about tailoring the balance of features, performance, and cost to meet the needs of different segments of customers.
  - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
    > This is not about "gimping" the Air. it is about tailoring the balance of features, performance, and cost to meet the needs of different segments of customers. Yes but it’s pretty obvious when you look at the design that Apple is intentionally limiting the performance of its cheaper products so as to not hurt the Pro line too much.
    - Tagbert 4y ago
      The 13 MBP with M2 is almost the same price as the M2 MBA. The MBP is a little more performance when running continuous heavy processing due to its fan. The MBP is also thicker, heavier and has a fan running. The MBA runs almost as fast but is lighter and never has a fan. If you look at the Six Colors review, they show some throttling at 10 minutes on a Cinebench test. The MBP with a fan scored 8638 and the MBA without scored 8211. That kind of difference is not worth adding a fan or putting in some heat pads that make the case get hotter. It just means that the most portable Mac is ever so slightly slower than the low end Pro Mac. I'm happy with that. https://i0.wp.com/sixcolors.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/throttling-chart-2.png?ssl=1 https://i0.wp.com/sixcolors.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/t... https://sixcolors.com/post/2022/07/m2-macbook-air-review-a-new-era/ https://sixcolors.com/post/2022/07/m2-macbook-air-review-a-n...
- _aavaa_ 4y ago
  I disagree. It's not "inefficient" since the laptop is not meant for sustained heavy loads. That's a trade-off, not a gimp. Want heavy loads, get the thicker and heavier one with active cooling. Don't care about heavy loads, great have this one that is skinnier and lighter.
  - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
    Once again you are ignoring my point. The Air could be better without active cooling. The passive cooling solution in place is intentionally poorer that it could be so as to limit the performance. That’s fairly standard for Apple. It doesn’t mean that the Air is a bad laptop just that it’s purposefully held back by Apple design choice. I know Apple sells a model tailored to heavier load. The point of limiting the performance of the Air is to not cannibalise its sell numbers too much.
    - _aavaa_ 4y ago
      I’m not entirely convinced that they could have done so without another trade off. Yes they could have made the heat transfer from the cpu/gpu to the chassis better. So it could make better use of that bottom plate to dissipate heat. But the cost of that would have been a laptop that is warmer/hotter to the touch. Idk how much hotter it would be, but I’m sure there’ll be a YouTuber or two who will test it out and less us know. Maybe it’s only 1-2C, maybe it’s 15-20. It’d accept 1-2C, but I would not accept 15-20.