5 ms·

Maybe France is a good place to work because workers actively stand up for their rights.

bigDinosaur 4y ago
It has an awfully elitist education and employment system with very little opportunity to break into any of it as an outsider (i.e. from any lower class or from an entire range of universities and majors). It's certainly not necessarily a better place to be than the US, although it does have the benefits such as universal healthcare that are missing in the US.
- winReInstall 4y ago
  Well, nobody has a chance in the us either. There are just various "industries" in need of fresh meat, who create a ilusion of "chance" to churn through idealistic, young people as a cheap labour source for jobs.
  - refurb 4y ago
    You should tell my boss who was a refugee that "nobody has a chance in the US". She'd be fascinated to hear your reasoning.
    - grapeskin 4y ago
      France is full of refugees as well. Loads of countries are. Not sure what the point is.
      - refurb 4y ago
        The point is "nobody has a chance in the US" is clearly false?
      - badpun 4y ago
        How many refugees in France end up in managerial roles, working alongside the grads from elite schools?
        ChuckNorris89 4y ago
        Not many I'd wager. France seemed pretty elitist to me. The company I used to work for had the HQ in France, and there, all the devs doing the stressful mediocre pay grunt work, were all Mohamed and Ahmed immigrants from North Africa, while all the suit & tie managers with expensive haircuts doing nothing but have coffee and joke around for 4 hours/day, were native white French dudes. I wish this was a meme though, but this is my anecdote from my time there.
  - rtp4me 4y ago
    Hard disagree. And, the illusion of "chance" is what? Owning a house? Check Starting a business? Check Starting a family? Check Getting an advanced education? Check The US is full of opportunity and "chances". Just because you feel nobody has a chance does not make it so. Nothing is for free - you need to be willing to put the effort into making it happen.
  - mensetmanusman 4y ago
    I grew up in poverty collecting change from McDonalds drive throughs as a kid, went to MIT eventually, and am now trying to pay it forward. It does happen…
- frozencell 4y ago
  > It has an awfully elitist education and employment system Who cares? France gives everybody mobility, a computer and network, plus free training in case they cannot go self-taught. Most of French new jobs are deliviery and remote work by African immigrants (extensively represented due to France having half Africa as a former trading point, faith territory and colony).
- enriquto 4y ago
  > [France] has an awfully elitist education and employment system with very little opportunity to break into any of it as an outsider What are you talking about? Basic education in France is free, the university is open to everybody and is not expensive at all; and if you are a good student you can even go to a "grande école", which is not only free but you receive a good monthly salary just to study there. The entrance exams are open to everybody, and they are anonymous. Please tell me how can it be any less elitist than that! Of course, there is a lot of social inertia whereby children of parents with higher education are more likely to pursue a higher education. But this is an acknowledged problem and one of the main goals of the system is precisely to solve it. Source: I am part of the French higher education system to which I entered as a total outsider. (you are right, however, that the private employment system is awfully elitist: if you didn't go to the right schools it's much harder to get a good job)
baby 4y ago
I have this theory that to have a healthy ecosystem you need capitalists to push you in one direction to increase the economy of the country at a global scale, while socialists push you in another direction to increase quality of life for people in your country. The problem is that in the US, it's really hard to have state-wide or national movements, as cities are spread out and there is a real lack of density for protests to happen, for example.

It has an awfully elitist education and employment system with very little opportunity to break into any of it as an outsider (i.e. from any lower class or from an entire range of universities and majors). It's certainly not necessarily a better place to be than the US, although it does have the benefits such as universal healthcare that are missing in the US.

winReInstall 4y ago
Well, nobody has a chance in the us either. There are just various "industries" in need of fresh meat, who create a ilusion of "chance" to churn through idealistic, young people as a cheap labour source for jobs.
- refurb 4y ago
  You should tell my boss who was a refugee that "nobody has a chance in the US". She'd be fascinated to hear your reasoning.
  - grapeskin 4y ago
    France is full of refugees as well. Loads of countries are. Not sure what the point is.
    - refurb 4y ago
      The point is "nobody has a chance in the US" is clearly false?
    - badpun 4y ago
      How many refugees in France end up in managerial roles, working alongside the grads from elite schools?
      - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
        Not many I'd wager. France seemed pretty elitist to me. The company I used to work for had the HQ in France, and there, all the devs doing the stressful mediocre pay grunt work, were all Mohamed and Ahmed immigrants from North Africa, while all the suit & tie managers with expensive haircuts doing nothing but have coffee and joke around for 4 hours/day, were native white French dudes. I wish this was a meme though, but this is my anecdote from my time there.
- rtp4me 4y ago
  Hard disagree. And, the illusion of "chance" is what? Owning a house? Check Starting a business? Check Starting a family? Check Getting an advanced education? Check The US is full of opportunity and "chances". Just because you feel nobody has a chance does not make it so. Nothing is for free - you need to be willing to put the effort into making it happen.
- mensetmanusman 4y ago
  I grew up in poverty collecting change from McDonalds drive throughs as a kid, went to MIT eventually, and am now trying to pay it forward. It does happen…
frozencell 4y ago
> It has an awfully elitist education and employment system Who cares? France gives everybody mobility, a computer and network, plus free training in case they cannot go self-taught. Most of French new jobs are deliviery and remote work by African immigrants (extensively represented due to France having half Africa as a former trading point, faith territory and colony).
enriquto 4y ago
> [France] has an awfully elitist education and employment system with very little opportunity to break into any of it as an outsider What are you talking about? Basic education in France is free, the university is open to everybody and is not expensive at all; and if you are a good student you can even go to a "grande école", which is not only free but you receive a good monthly salary just to study there. The entrance exams are open to everybody, and they are anonymous. Please tell me how can it be any less elitist than that! Of course, there is a lot of social inertia whereby children of parents with higher education are more likely to pursue a higher education. But this is an acknowledged problem and one of the main goals of the system is precisely to solve it. Source: I am part of the French higher education system to which I entered as a total outsider. (you are right, however, that the private employment system is awfully elitist: if you didn't go to the right schools it's much harder to get a good job)

baby 4y ago

I have this theory that to have a healthy ecosystem you need capitalists to push you in one direction to increase the economy of the country at a global scale, while socialists push you in another direction to increase quality of life for people in your country. The problem is that in the US, it's really hard to have state-wide or national movements, as cities are spread out and there is a real lack of density for protests to happen, for example.