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But the way the parties deal with each other is not equal. The right wing is conservative and holds by its definition “conserved” ideas, aka not up to date. A

by prox 4y ago

But the way the parties deal with each other is not equal. The right wing is conservative and holds by its definition “conserved” ideas, aka not up to date. A majority (which runs in the millions) already knows what it wants and voted accordingly, and a minority conservative SCOTUS voted against it. So now the states can vote on it, but the information I am getting that some states find all abortions being illegal is just as a fundamentalist a position as any. Aka for one party in particular there is no grey. This has largely to do with the power/voting dynamics of the right. One side is not equal in its approach to issues by its nature (conservation) It would be a lot more interesting if conservatism would mean “skeptic” in practice, but we all know it has gone far beyond it. Not to say I welcome curious conversations with anyone, but to say the two sides are equal in their approach and methodology is not true (in my experience)

jollybean 4y ago
Party dynamics in the US evolves a lot. GOP is nothing like what it was 10 years ago, and nothing like it was during the 1990's. Democrats used to be the 'Party of the South' etc.. SCOTUS confirmation has changed. Also, it's really not quite appropriate to say conservatives are even 'conservation', even if that were true, it doesn't make the posture inherently unfair etc.. Finally, you say 'both sides' - there are not '2 sides' that's a myth. The GOP is utterly divided between Trumpers and non, and the Left is divided between the Woke and Classical socialists. A lot of people in private have ideas across the spectrum.
- prox 4y ago
  Do you have a breakdown on numbers approximately between the divisions? It’s also interesting you say “in private” , so what people say and do differs from what they believe at home?
  - jollybean 4y ago
    Bob Woodward on TV yesterday said that 20% of Republicans want Trump gone, 50% support him, and 30% just want to 'win'. More than 1/2 of GOP Senators probably despise Trump, they see him for what he is, but he's popular. Meaning, he can 'have them fired' like he's 'firing' Liz Cheney by supporting her attackers. That's how politics works. Mitch McConnell utterly despises Trump, but he'll come out publicly and support him if he's he man. All 'public' politics is posturing and populism, it's just a bit worse in the USA.
    - prox 4y ago
      Interesting numbers. Isn’t Trump already gone, or do they mean the politics?
      - jollybean 4y ago
        No, 50% of GOP voters are beholden to Trump and will do what he says. Liz Cheney is being ousted by him right now. Trump is backing candidates who support him against those who do not, making a lot of GOP afraid to speak out. Oddly, if he does announce he's not running, he may lose influence. Trump has to keep the appearance of power otherwise the structure will eat him alive, they hate him. He'll have to keep fighting all the way to the grave.
        prox 4y ago
        I honestly can understand that mindset “Whatever dude X does, however weird, obnoxious, or morally questionable, I am going to vote for him.” I just can’t if you believe in democracy, however it’s still 50% that doesn’t, although 30% that just want to “win” is still weird.
        jollybean 4y ago
        The politicians do it for power. The 'people' are stupid and put their egos before reality. They are also inclined to support people over ideas, and many of them legitimately believe the election was rigged because Trump and Newsmax/Foxnews told them so. So in a weird and perverse way, they are 'acting in good faith'. 'The Big Lies' are possible when people are already sensitive about it and 'want to believe it' i.e. they just need a reason to believe. This is usually what we mean by populism.
junofan 4y ago
You say “information I am getting”—are you not US-based? I can tell you the two parties are pretty much the same in their approach (other than some minor differences in organizational structure). It’s professionalized and data-driven. They are just trying to win elections.

by prox 4y ago

jollybean 4y ago

Party dynamics in the US evolves a lot. GOP is nothing like what it was 10 years ago, and nothing like it was during the 1990's. Democrats used to be the 'Party of the South' etc.. SCOTUS confirmation has changed. Also, it's really not quite appropriate to say conservatives are even 'conservation', even if that were true, it doesn't make the posture inherently unfair etc.. Finally, you say 'both sides' - there are not '2 sides' that's a myth. The GOP is utterly divided between Trumpers and non, and the Left is divided between the Woke and Classical socialists. A lot of people in private have ideas across the spectrum.

prox 4y ago
Do you have a breakdown on numbers approximately between the divisions? It’s also interesting you say “in private” , so what people say and do differs from what they believe at home?
- jollybean 4y ago
  Bob Woodward on TV yesterday said that 20% of Republicans want Trump gone, 50% support him, and 30% just want to 'win'. More than 1/2 of GOP Senators probably despise Trump, they see him for what he is, but he's popular. Meaning, he can 'have them fired' like he's 'firing' Liz Cheney by supporting her attackers. That's how politics works. Mitch McConnell utterly despises Trump, but he'll come out publicly and support him if he's he man. All 'public' politics is posturing and populism, it's just a bit worse in the USA.
  - prox 4y ago
    Interesting numbers. Isn’t Trump already gone, or do they mean the politics?
    - jollybean 4y ago
      No, 50% of GOP voters are beholden to Trump and will do what he says. Liz Cheney is being ousted by him right now. Trump is backing candidates who support him against those who do not, making a lot of GOP afraid to speak out. Oddly, if he does announce he's not running, he may lose influence. Trump has to keep the appearance of power otherwise the structure will eat him alive, they hate him. He'll have to keep fighting all the way to the grave.
      - prox 4y ago
        I honestly can understand that mindset “Whatever dude X does, however weird, obnoxious, or morally questionable, I am going to vote for him.” I just can’t if you believe in democracy, however it’s still 50% that doesn’t, although 30% that just want to “win” is still weird.
        jollybean 4y ago
        The politicians do it for power. The 'people' are stupid and put their egos before reality. They are also inclined to support people over ideas, and many of them legitimately believe the election was rigged because Trump and Newsmax/Foxnews told them so. So in a weird and perverse way, they are 'acting in good faith'. 'The Big Lies' are possible when people are already sensitive about it and 'want to believe it' i.e. they just need a reason to believe. This is usually what we mean by populism.

junofan 4y ago

You say “information I am getting”—are you not US-based? I can tell you the two parties are pretty much the same in their approach (other than some minor differences in organizational structure). It’s professionalized and data-driven. They are just trying to win elections.