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People have been complaining about this since literally before Christ. “[Young people] are high-minded because they have not yet been humbled by life, nor hav
by tschwimmer 4y ago
People have been complaining about this since literally before Christ.
“[Young people] are high-minded because they have not yet been humbled by life,
nor have they experienced the force of circumstances.
...
They think they know everything, and are always quite sure about it.”
-Aristotle
- swayvil 4y agoKids are always honest ’cause they don’t think they’re ever gonna die - The Strokes
- noduerme 4y agoexcept for every generation in America other than the boomers and their kids, who all learned what Aristotle was referring to by the age of 12 or 13. Plus people in every third world country on earth, who would give their left nut to find work, make money and raise a family in America. There's definitely a crisis in America of people who've never worked not wanting to work. And it's the ultimate first world problem. If you want to tackle privilege instead of getting a relatively shitty job in your 20s... you're probably privileged as hell.
- XorNot 4y ago> There's definitely a crisis in America of people who've never worked not wanting to work. Citation needed. Do you have one single shred of evidence that this is the case, to the extent of being a "crisis"?
- noduerme 4y agoYeah. I do. Come hang out in Southeast Portland for a few days and you'll gather what I'm referring to. Seriously, just talk to anyone under 25 here who's living in a van or shooting heroin on the street and they'll explain to you in collegiate level prose why there's no point getting a job.
- nl 4y ago> just talk to anyone under 25 here who's living in a van or shooting heroin on the street and they'll explain to you in collegiate level prose why there's no point getting a job. Oh wow. Just talk to any of the beatniks, or the hobos and vagabonds in the greatest generation or... You can't take a sample from people who have dropped out of society and become drug addicts or to live in a van and make a conclusion about society! If I took the same sample from of 25 yos from a Harvard lecture theater you can bet most of them are expecting to work 60 hours weeks.
- rubyn00bie 4y ago> Come hang out in Southeast Portland for a few days and you'll gather what I'm referring to. I live in Portland by PSU. I used to live in inner SE off Belmont. You’re 100% talking out your ass. I would put money you don’t talk to anyone OR as others have said are only talking to those living on the street. You’re manipulating things to fit your narrative it’s gross. Please stop. The subset of people you’re attempting to identify are by and large suffering from mental illness and/or abuse. They don’t need you to misrepresent them and portray them as lazy, bourgeois, and/or unwilling to work. It’s completely disgusting behavior to do so and you should feel shame.
- selimthegrim 4y agoI used to live in SE Portland and I distinctly remember an earnest topic of conversation at Roadside Attraction (among people who presumably had the money to pay for their drinks) being the necessity of working for a living.
- noduerme 4y agoThey do exist... capitalists in Portland, I mean. I have friends who hold the values of hard work. But it's considered a virtue to signal that you think work is unfair and somehow demeaning. Also, Roadside tends to be a slightly older crowd and generate better than average conversations. I love that place.
- ncallaway 4y agoDo you have any… evidence for this crisis? Or can we just add your quote to the twitter thread?
- noduerme 4y agoit's anecdotal but mostly relates to the conversations I have with people - daily - who view their long term prospects as nil, no matter how hard they work or don't. It's recognizable to me as an extension of the Gen X dread of having lower economic expectations than your parents, but it lacks the DIY ethos or even the willingness to bite the bullet and try. I could recount a book's worth of these conversations I've had weekly since before the pandemic among the privileged white college grads in my neighborhood. I was also a wanderer and a slacker and a musician and an artist and I have plenty of sympathy for the sentiment. But at the end of the day I knew I had to work, and they don't have that feeling.
- wishfish 4y agoI hope you realize the fallacy of proclaiming a "crisis" based purely on anecdotal evidence.
- nl 4y agoIt's worse than that. Their sample is based on people who have already decided to drop out of society: > just talk to anyone under 25 here who's living in a van or shooting heroin on the street and they'll explain to you in collegiate level prose why there's no point getting a job. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32162126 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32162126
- mc32 4y agoHowever, "kids" didn't get to live with mom and dad till they were in their 20s or 30s either. Outside of the few wealthy families they had to earn their keep starting pretty early.
- wishfish 4y agoFrom what I can tell, people in America generally work and they work hard. American productivity is usually high. I'm not seeing any large waves of unproductive twentysomethings. It's always strange to me when critics look at this highly productive country, where many people work hard with fewer benefits & protections than other nations, and then call those people lazy.
- msbarnett 4y ago“There’s definitely a crisis of nobody wanting to work anymore, unlike the last hundred years of people saying this” lol c’mon. The ol’ “$CURRENT_GENERATION is uniquely weak/lazy/bad, unlike $SPEAKER_OWN_GENERATION” chestnut is a nice touch, I’ll give you that.
- coopierez 4y ago> If you want to tackle privilege instead of getting a relatively shitty job in your 20s... you're probably privileged as hell. So would you consider your comment "tackling privilege"?
- swayvil 4y agoThe wealthy have replaced nature. In the past we extracted our living from the land. Now we extract our living from our wealthy neighbors, at their pleasure. Ie : I wish I could grow some beans in this field VS I wish my wealthy neighbor would use me.
- noduerme 4y agoNot really. In the past, the wealthy owned the field. In the present, there is plenty of cheap land if you want to live off the grid and grow beans. That's not what people want anymore. They want cars and modern appliances. You can't get those without an advanced manufacturing society, and thus, people work for other people. But you don't extract your living from wealthy neighbors. You provide a service that you get paid for. What you get paid depends on what you can provide.
- cm2187 4y agoIt’s like people complaining that “they broke the weather”, because somehow the temperature and rain that day is not in line with long term average, or at least what they remember of this average (like if it ever is).
- crooked-v 4y agoThis is a weird comparison, given that the effects of climate change mean that weather in various places really isn't in line with the long-term average.
- prawn 4y agoThe media commentary is almost always from employers. I think there are some new/developing factors, but otherwise it seems like inevitable tension from one side seeking to pay less and the other hoping to earn more. One part of the equation that I think is addressable though is unsophisticated employers, for lack of a better term. If you work for a small business, the owner's personality is a bigger factor in your experience - in negotiating, being paid, handling leave (an owner rarely gets formal leave, so some will resent people asking). Being underpaid is one thing, but being underpaid and dealing with a difficult personality who controls everything about your employment is another thing on top.
- krmboya 4y agoHow does the quote relate to not wanting to work?
- the_only_law 4y agoYounger people than me bad.