5 ms·

As a member of the anti-psychiatry side after seeing primary care doctors wreck my mother... I think we will see a sea change in how we approach this with thing

As a member of the anti-psychiatry side after seeing primary care doctors wreck my mother... I think we will see a sea change in how we approach this with things like psychedelics. I recently got treated with six weeks of Ketamine, and it works. If you ever thought about rebooting your brain, then I recommend it. However, you really have to surrender yourself to the experience; it is a very intentional act.

PragmaticPulp 4y ago
Ketamine treatment is interesting, but it's not really a replacement for SSRIs. The anti-depressant effects of Ketamine are unfortunately relatively short-lived. Tolerance also seems to develop to the effects over time. There are some adventurous providers experimenting with frequent ketamine dosing over long periods of time, but the results haven't really been great from what I've seen. Also, a psychedelic experience is definitely not necessary for ketamine's antidepressant effects. In fact, the more responsible providers and studies are careful to keep peak plasma levels low enough to avoid this, and it works just fine. A lot of unscrupulous providers are using excessively high doses to induce psychedelic experiences, but this isn't actually supported by the evidence. SSRIs and other traditional antidepressants will continue to be mainstays of long-term depression treatment if for no reason other than their sustainability and long-term efficacy is so much better than ketamine.
- jb1991 4y ago
  How about psilocybin? One recent article posted here suggested something like one dose every six months had measurable impact on depression.
  - asdff 4y ago
    I support psychadelic legalization but at the same time I wonder how much of the antidepressive effect of psychadelics is just from giving space for thought in your day to day life. For exmaple, the modern human wakes up, starts scrolling instagram, goes to work, goes home, continues scrolling instagram, then sleeps. There is no period of reflection or introspective thought, since every mundane activity where you could be reflecting internally, e.g. washing the dishes or walking to the train, is consumed by a podcast you have playing from your airpods. For some people, taking a psychadelic drug is the only time they give themselves to do nothing but think internally for a few hours. I wonder if they would get the same benefit just setting aside regular designated meditation time where their thoughts aren't being interloped by all these forces in modern society that vie for our attention.
    - mathgladiator 4y ago
      For my first infusion, I didn't wear an eye-mask and I was kind of incapacitated as I watched people come and check on my vitals. I felt this deep sense of caring that we are all in this world together and love is the most important thing. It's not just time to reflect, but also a new perspective which is hard to allow to enter the mind due to all the anxieties of the world.
    - jb1991 4y ago
      I agree with your general point, but psilocybin does a heck of a lot more than give you space to think. It temporarily (or, as studies suggest, perhaps more long-term) also changes quite a bit about how you think.
- mathgladiator 4y ago
  I'm finding the biggest impact from the psychedelic experience as a spiritual awakening, and the biggest thing I feel is that I'm no longer in the nihilism trap.
  - padolsey 4y ago
    Can you articulate how your brain allowed you to escape from that trap? Did K affect you on some low-level inarticulable level? Sincerely curious. Nihilism is a struggle for me!
    - mathgladiator 4y ago
      So, what I can surmise is that I felt a deep connection to the universe. You _feel_ the ramifications of not only being a part of the universe, but also the part of the universe trying to understand it. I'd say I was an atheist before, but now I feel there is something and that something is curious. It's like consciousness is independent of the universe, and didn't create the universe. Instead, it's trying to figure out the puzzle. So, this tiny spark of faith cures nihilism because I'm part of the consciousness, and as long I as wake up and solve by piece of the puzzle, there is meaning in that.
      - padolsey 4y ago
        That's beautiful. Thank you.
      - randomopining 4y ago
        100% same feelings. But really it was never as much like this with K as it was much moreso with the shrooms. I can totally see why K is an immediate relief for people who are immensely depressed. Within 1 hour it basically rips you away from your sense of self, that you were so unnecessarily attached to and that had all the depressive emotions with it. Shrooms seem like they produce a guttal connective feeling to your surroundings and the natural world around you. Longer lasting imo.
  - _moof 4y ago
- armatav 4y ago
  So unbelievably unread and wrong. Ketamines anti-depressant effects are some of the longest lasting in pharmaceutical history. Tolerance is carefully managed by your infusion provider to not build up. The long term efficacy is insanely good - which is why we approved it in the first place. The psychedelic experience is necessary to approach the more permanent end of the spectrum - this is by the "evidence" that you are not reading. SSRIs continue to be a mainstay because they aren't $800 per session with insurance and have an extreme margin. They are far, far, far lower efficacy. What are you doing my man? You just straight lied in almost every sentence.
  - dang 4y ago
    Please don't break the site guidelines like this, regardless of how wrong someone else is or you feel they are. It makes the thread significantly worse. Also, posting this way discredits your position, which in the case that you happen to be right, is quite a bad thing. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
walrus01 4y ago
By far one of the weirdest things I saw recently was ketamine clinic advertising on various forms of social media. Very slickly produced.

PragmaticPulp 4y ago

Ketamine treatment is interesting, but it's not really a replacement for SSRIs. The anti-depressant effects of Ketamine are unfortunately relatively short-lived. Tolerance also seems to develop to the effects over time. There are some adventurous providers experimenting with frequent ketamine dosing over long periods of time, but the results haven't really been great from what I've seen. Also, a psychedelic experience is definitely not necessary for ketamine's antidepressant effects. In fact, the more responsible providers and studies are careful to keep peak plasma levels low enough to avoid this, and it works just fine. A lot of unscrupulous providers are using excessively high doses to induce psychedelic experiences, but this isn't actually supported by the evidence. SSRIs and other traditional antidepressants will continue to be mainstays of long-term depression treatment if for no reason other than their sustainability and long-term efficacy is so much better than ketamine.

jb1991 4y ago
How about psilocybin? One recent article posted here suggested something like one dose every six months had measurable impact on depression.
- asdff 4y ago
  I support psychadelic legalization but at the same time I wonder how much of the antidepressive effect of psychadelics is just from giving space for thought in your day to day life. For exmaple, the modern human wakes up, starts scrolling instagram, goes to work, goes home, continues scrolling instagram, then sleeps. There is no period of reflection or introspective thought, since every mundane activity where you could be reflecting internally, e.g. washing the dishes or walking to the train, is consumed by a podcast you have playing from your airpods. For some people, taking a psychadelic drug is the only time they give themselves to do nothing but think internally for a few hours. I wonder if they would get the same benefit just setting aside regular designated meditation time where their thoughts aren't being interloped by all these forces in modern society that vie for our attention.
  - mathgladiator 4y ago
    For my first infusion, I didn't wear an eye-mask and I was kind of incapacitated as I watched people come and check on my vitals. I felt this deep sense of caring that we are all in this world together and love is the most important thing. It's not just time to reflect, but also a new perspective which is hard to allow to enter the mind due to all the anxieties of the world.
  - jb1991 4y ago
    I agree with your general point, but psilocybin does a heck of a lot more than give you space to think. It temporarily (or, as studies suggest, perhaps more long-term) also changes quite a bit about how you think.
mathgladiator 4y ago
I'm finding the biggest impact from the psychedelic experience as a spiritual awakening, and the biggest thing I feel is that I'm no longer in the nihilism trap.
- padolsey 4y ago
  Can you articulate how your brain allowed you to escape from that trap? Did K affect you on some low-level inarticulable level? Sincerely curious. Nihilism is a struggle for me!
  - mathgladiator 4y ago
    So, what I can surmise is that I felt a deep connection to the universe. You _feel_ the ramifications of not only being a part of the universe, but also the part of the universe trying to understand it. I'd say I was an atheist before, but now I feel there is something and that something is curious. It's like consciousness is independent of the universe, and didn't create the universe. Instead, it's trying to figure out the puzzle. So, this tiny spark of faith cures nihilism because I'm part of the consciousness, and as long I as wake up and solve by piece of the puzzle, there is meaning in that.
    - padolsey 4y ago
      That's beautiful. Thank you.
    - randomopining 4y ago
      100% same feelings. But really it was never as much like this with K as it was much moreso with the shrooms. I can totally see why K is an immediate relief for people who are immensely depressed. Within 1 hour it basically rips you away from your sense of self, that you were so unnecessarily attached to and that had all the depressive emotions with it. Shrooms seem like they produce a guttal connective feeling to your surroundings and the natural world around you. Longer lasting imo.
- _moof 4y ago
armatav 4y ago
So unbelievably unread and wrong. Ketamines anti-depressant effects are some of the longest lasting in pharmaceutical history. Tolerance is carefully managed by your infusion provider to not build up. The long term efficacy is insanely good - which is why we approved it in the first place. The psychedelic experience is necessary to approach the more permanent end of the spectrum - this is by the "evidence" that you are not reading. SSRIs continue to be a mainstay because they aren't $800 per session with insurance and have an extreme margin. They are far, far, far lower efficacy. What are you doing my man? You just straight lied in almost every sentence.
- dang 4y ago
  Please don't break the site guidelines like this, regardless of how wrong someone else is or you feel they are. It makes the thread significantly worse. Also, posting this way discredits your position, which in the case that you happen to be right, is quite a bad thing. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

walrus01 4y ago

By far one of the weirdest things I saw recently was ketamine clinic advertising on various forms of social media. Very slickly produced.