5 ms·

Perhaps may not be as big of a problem given how efficient the chip is and also the fact that the latest iPhones have huge computational power all with passive

Perhaps may not be as big of a problem given how efficient the chip is and also the fact that the latest iPhones have huge computational power all with passive cooling. Also, iirc aliminium chassis acts as a heatsink.

rowanG077 4y ago
If you look at some basic tests you can see it quickly heats up to about 105 degrees Celsius. And leading to degraded performance. And that is without even touching the GPU. I honestly was really excited about the M series. But it seems Apple is going down the exact some route they did with Intel. Massively underperforming in the thermal department. I pray this is an outlier. Or at the very least the pro series will not have this problem again.
- bgdkbtv 4y ago
  Yeah seems that way. It sucks because I was seriously considering this machine, but it looks like Apple made this machine to just push more people towards their Pro line up.
  - _aavaa_ 4y ago
    Apple made this machine for those who want a laptop that doesn’t need sustained heavy workloads, I.e. most people in the general population.
    - bgdkbtv 4y ago
      Yeah that's me lol, my 2015 tbMBP is only used for watching movies and replying to emails. For everything else there is a desktop
    - justsomehnguy 4y ago
      >most people in the general population. And we have a winner! It's quite surprising (well actually it's not) what there are many people who thinks what Apple does things for their use case, which is usually something like recompiling Chrome or something.
  - threeseed 4y ago
    By all means list the 5+ minute long sustained workloads that ordinary people are running on their laptops. The only use cases for which the MBA is not sustainable are Pro ones e.g. 3D rendering, CFDs etc so it's hard to see how Apple is being unreasonable here.
    - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
      > The only use cases for which the MBA is not sustainable are Pro ones e.g. 3D rendering, CFDs etc so it's hard to see how Apple is being unreasonable here. It's not about Apple being unreasonable. It's just that what you call "Pro use cases" could reasonably be done with the Air if it had slightly better thermal management in the same way an iPad Pro running macOs could replace a current MacBook Air. Apple likes to use these design decisions to segment its markets.
      - _aavaa_ 4y ago
        Yes, that's the point. The Air is targeted at the people who don't need to do those things and would rather the laptop be smaller and lighter. A MacBook Air with better thermal management is an entry level MacBook Pro.
        WastingMyTime89 4y ago
        No, that's not the point. The Air is intentionally gimped by inefficient thermal management so people who want better performance have to buy a Pro. Apple could make the Air performs close to the entry level MacBook Pro but doesn't because that's how they segment. They have been quite good at introducing products which can compete on price while protecting their higher margin sales. It's a very common practice for Apple. In the same way their laptop and tablet offerings have been converging for years from a technical point of view but they intentionally limit what the tablet can do so has to not cannibalise their laptop sales.
        Tagbert 4y ago
        If you prioritize sustained load performance, then the pro machines are designed for that. If you have less need for that or don't care about a mild slowdown on the rare occasions where you can push it into throttle territory, then the Air would be good for you. I would gladly trade away some maximum performance in order to get a cheaper, lighter machine that doesn't need a fan blowing. This is not about "gimping" the Air. it is about tailoring the balance of features, performance, and cost to meet the needs of different segments of customers.
coffee_beqn 4y ago
It’s not really a efficient heat sink since it’s just a big slab with no fins to actually cool itself down. Now it’ll heat up the whole chassis and then stay hot. It also doesn’t look like the metal piece on top of the CPU is seriously connected to the chassis (like with direct contact and thermal paste)
- dev_tty01 4y ago
  No, a small finned heat sink with no air movement would be worse. They are spreading out the heat to move it out via a large surface area of the metal case. I'm guessing the paste wouldn't help much since the heat flow density is fairly low. Think of it this way, the thermal resistance per sq mm is relatively high, but the total parallel thermal resistance is still very low because of the large area. Don't forget, this machine is focused on the consumer mass market, not the high performance market. It will never break a sweat for the vast majority of typical use cases. Even when throttling a little bit, it still vastly outperforms the Intel MB Air it replaces. Get a 14" MB Pro if you really want incredible thermal performance.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- threeseed 4y ago
  > It also doesn’t look like the metal piece on top of the CPU is seriously connected to the chassis It's not supposed to be connected. You are describing the hack that some people do where they add a thermal bridge between the two. Yes you get better performance but at the cost of serious injuries due to the significantly increased heat being directed to your lap.
Tagbert 4y ago
Apple has said that they explicitly are not using the chassis to cool the chips as that would transfer too much heat to the human operator. They didn't "forget the heatsink". This MBA was design for tasks and usage that most of us do that do not involve simultaneous FCP renders of 8K video and 3D rendering. If you are doing that, you might want to look at the MB Pro. The rest of us don't need to worry about it.
- schwartzworld 4y ago
  Weird. I have a 2 year old MBP that gets turns it's fans on when I open slack and intellij at the same time.
  - Tagbert 4y ago
    Yes, that will happen with any of the Intel MBPs. That was one of the best benefits of moving to Apple Silicon SOCs. It takes a lot more load to get them hot.

rowanG077 4y ago

If you look at some basic tests you can see it quickly heats up to about 105 degrees Celsius. And leading to degraded performance. And that is without even touching the GPU. I honestly was really excited about the M series. But it seems Apple is going down the exact some route they did with Intel. Massively underperforming in the thermal department. I pray this is an outlier. Or at the very least the pro series will not have this problem again.

bgdkbtv 4y ago
Yeah seems that way. It sucks because I was seriously considering this machine, but it looks like Apple made this machine to just push more people towards their Pro line up.
- _aavaa_ 4y ago
  Apple made this machine for those who want a laptop that doesn’t need sustained heavy workloads, I.e. most people in the general population.
  - bgdkbtv 4y ago
    Yeah that's me lol, my 2015 tbMBP is only used for watching movies and replying to emails. For everything else there is a desktop
  - justsomehnguy 4y ago
    >most people in the general population. And we have a winner! It's quite surprising (well actually it's not) what there are many people who thinks what Apple does things for their use case, which is usually something like recompiling Chrome or something.
- threeseed 4y ago
  By all means list the 5+ minute long sustained workloads that ordinary people are running on their laptops. The only use cases for which the MBA is not sustainable are Pro ones e.g. 3D rendering, CFDs etc so it's hard to see how Apple is being unreasonable here.
  - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
    > The only use cases for which the MBA is not sustainable are Pro ones e.g. 3D rendering, CFDs etc so it's hard to see how Apple is being unreasonable here. It's not about Apple being unreasonable. It's just that what you call "Pro use cases" could reasonably be done with the Air if it had slightly better thermal management in the same way an iPad Pro running macOs could replace a current MacBook Air. Apple likes to use these design decisions to segment its markets.
    - _aavaa_ 4y ago
      Yes, that's the point. The Air is targeted at the people who don't need to do those things and would rather the laptop be smaller and lighter. A MacBook Air with better thermal management is an entry level MacBook Pro.
      - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
        No, that's not the point. The Air is intentionally gimped by inefficient thermal management so people who want better performance have to buy a Pro. Apple could make the Air performs close to the entry level MacBook Pro but doesn't because that's how they segment. They have been quite good at introducing products which can compete on price while protecting their higher margin sales. It's a very common practice for Apple. In the same way their laptop and tablet offerings have been converging for years from a technical point of view but they intentionally limit what the tablet can do so has to not cannibalise their laptop sales.
        Tagbert 4y ago
        If you prioritize sustained load performance, then the pro machines are designed for that. If you have less need for that or don't care about a mild slowdown on the rare occasions where you can push it into throttle territory, then the Air would be good for you. I would gladly trade away some maximum performance in order to get a cheaper, lighter machine that doesn't need a fan blowing. This is not about "gimping" the Air. it is about tailoring the balance of features, performance, and cost to meet the needs of different segments of customers.

coffee_beqn 4y ago

It’s not really a efficient heat sink since it’s just a big slab with no fins to actually cool itself down. Now it’ll heat up the whole chassis and then stay hot. It also doesn’t look like the metal piece on top of the CPU is seriously connected to the chassis (like with direct contact and thermal paste)

dev_tty01 4y ago
No, a small finned heat sink with no air movement would be worse. They are spreading out the heat to move it out via a large surface area of the metal case. I'm guessing the paste wouldn't help much since the heat flow density is fairly low. Think of it this way, the thermal resistance per sq mm is relatively high, but the total parallel thermal resistance is still very low because of the large area. Don't forget, this machine is focused on the consumer mass market, not the high performance market. It will never break a sweat for the vast majority of typical use cases. Even when throttling a little bit, it still vastly outperforms the Intel MB Air it replaces. Get a 14" MB Pro if you really want incredible thermal performance.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
threeseed 4y ago
> It also doesn’t look like the metal piece on top of the CPU is seriously connected to the chassis It's not supposed to be connected. You are describing the hack that some people do where they add a thermal bridge between the two. Yes you get better performance but at the cost of serious injuries due to the significantly increased heat being directed to your lap.

Tagbert 4y ago

Apple has said that they explicitly are not using the chassis to cool the chips as that would transfer too much heat to the human operator. They didn't "forget the heatsink". This MBA was design for tasks and usage that most of us do that do not involve simultaneous FCP renders of 8K video and 3D rendering. If you are doing that, you might want to look at the MB Pro. The rest of us don't need to worry about it.

schwartzworld 4y ago
Weird. I have a 2 year old MBP that gets turns it's fans on when I open slack and intellij at the same time.
- Tagbert 4y ago
  Yes, that will happen with any of the Intel MBPs. That was one of the best benefits of moving to Apple Silicon SOCs. It takes a lot more load to get them hot.