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Python as a language is a joy to use (for small projects), however pip has soured my experience of Python so drastically that I actively avoid taking up Python

by ssalka 4y ago

Python as a language is a joy to use (for small projects), however pip has soured my experience of Python so drastically that I actively avoid taking up Python projects out of knowledge - not fear, knowledge - that the setup/install process is going to be a humongous pain. In most cases I can get started more easily with Node.js/TypeScript. in b4 "use some other package manager / pipenv / virtualenv etc" - no. How about pip actually installs things as expected rather than making me jump through 1000 hoops. /rant

ssalka 4y ago
- ok_dad 4y ago
  Probably not down-voted for that, many Python devs agree that pip is basically garbage, down-voted because there are very simple solutions to Python's distribution problems that you refuse to acknowledge. Depending on your use case, there are various tools, but one easy set of tools that is good for anything from large production deployments down to an ML notebook environment is pyenv+poetry. Those two will, with very few commands, allow you to specify and install your environment for a project very easily and with similar ease as you might find when using nvm (similar tool to pyenv) and npm (similar tool to poetry) for a JS/TS/node/whatever project. You got down-voted for being willfully ignorant and proud of it, basically.
ausbah 4y ago
you can't complain if there are viable easy to use solutions
bornfreddy 4y ago
The issue is that there are many different ways to setup your environment. Every python dev has their own set of tools that mostly work, but sometimes break in some corner cases... and then the problems start, because searching for a solution will inevitably produce something that is almost, but not completely, applicable to your situation. I use pyenv+pipenv (@linux) and are mostly happy with it.
martopix 4y ago
pipenv and virtualenv are not "some other package manager". The package manager is still pip, which, by the way, does its job as a package manager fairly well. The problem is when you want multiple environments for multiple projects. A problem that is just nonexistent with, say, apt-get, because you don't need multiple environments.

by ssalka 4y ago

ssalka 4y ago

ok_dad 4y ago
Probably not down-voted for that, many Python devs agree that pip is basically garbage, down-voted because there are very simple solutions to Python's distribution problems that you refuse to acknowledge. Depending on your use case, there are various tools, but one easy set of tools that is good for anything from large production deployments down to an ML notebook environment is pyenv+poetry. Those two will, with very few commands, allow you to specify and install your environment for a project very easily and with similar ease as you might find when using nvm (similar tool to pyenv) and npm (similar tool to poetry) for a JS/TS/node/whatever project. You got down-voted for being willfully ignorant and proud of it, basically.

ausbah 4y ago

you can't complain if there are viable easy to use solutions

bornfreddy 4y ago

The issue is that there are many different ways to setup your environment. Every python dev has their own set of tools that mostly work, but sometimes break in some corner cases... and then the problems start, because searching for a solution will inevitably produce something that is almost, but not completely, applicable to your situation. I use pyenv+pipenv (@linux) and are mostly happy with it.

martopix 4y ago

pipenv and virtualenv are not "some other package manager". The package manager is still pip, which, by the way, does its job as a package manager fairly well. The problem is when you want multiple environments for multiple projects. A problem that is just nonexistent with, say, apt-get, because you don't need multiple environments.