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> And Kodak color film might be the prototype of vendor lock How? Those film cartridges were standard. There were many companies selling 110 film cartridges, 3

> And Kodak color film might be the prototype of vendor lock How? Those film cartridges were standard. There were many companies selling 110 film cartridges, 35mm film, etc.

brudgers 4y ago
In the early days of color film, the only way to get Kodak color film processed was by Kodak. Kodak as the only processing option goes all the way back to the Kodak No. 1 camera in the 19th century. Kodak produced a lot of roll film cameras that took unusual formats that practically speaking only Kodak sold. https://www.brownie-camera.com/film.shtml https://www.brownie-camera.com/film.shtml This continued into the 1970’s with with the Kodamatic instant film formats. While there were technically speaking other manufacturers of disc film and disc cameras, practically speaking they were synonymous with Kodak brand. That near exclusive film format only ceased manufacture in 1999.
- TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
  Even APS film canisters were made by Agfa and Fuji. I think you have selective memory. If disc film was the only format made by Kodak, that’s not really a pattern. there were many others (APS, 110, 124, Polaroid instant, etc) that were not. In any case even if Kodak did something like this 100 years ago, that does not preclude Sony from taking it to a new level in more modern times.
  - frosted-flakes 4y ago
    Kodak's early cameras functioned like disposable cameras. You took your pictures, then you sent or brought your camera to Kodak to be developed. They would refill the camera with new film and send it back to you.
    - TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
      Hm, when was that? Even the Kodak Brownie from 1900 used rolls of film: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodak_Brownie https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodak_Brownie
      - frosted-flakes 4y ago
        Yes, but the camera had to be opened in a darkroom and the film manually cut up and developed. I'm sure you could acquire your own film and do it yourself, but it wasn't exactly approachable. But I expect that it was primarily a technological limitation, and not meant to be a form of vendor lock-in. "You Press the Button, We Do the Rest" was Kodak's marketing slogan. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Press_the_Button,_We_Do_the_Rest https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Press_the_Button,_We_Do_...
      - brudgers 4y ago
        Back when George Eastman was in his prime and Kodak was a plucky startup.
  - brudgers 4y ago
    It’s not selective memory. Formats such as 101, 102, etc. we’re discontinued long before I was born. On the other hand, my grandparents had a Kodak instant camera instead of a Polaroid, I am in some of those pictures, and it was a proprietary format. Technicolor is another Kodak only film format, and Kodak was in the business of leasing the cameras to movie studios. Not that I have hate for Kodak or love for Sony or vice versa. I don’t have many strong emotions around brands. Ring, Nest, Alexa, Siri, Windows, NEF, CR3 etc etc the world is full of proprietary systems. Even John Deere combines. BTW, the Kodak business model for APS was selling new equipment to photo labs. Existing machines could not process it in a way that did what consumers were told APS would do.
    - TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
      > It’s not selective memory. Formats such as 101, 102, etc. we’re discontinued long before I was born. > On the other hand, my grandparents had a Kodak instant camera instead of a Polaroid, I am in some of those pictures, and it was a proprietary format. I think I must be a lot older than you. I used 110 and 124 for years. I can tell you firsthand these were not proprietary. Regarding Kodak instant, I never even heard of it until you wrote about it. Anyone who wanted instant photos bought Polaroid. I do not know if their cartridges were proprietary since I never owned one (the photo quality was not very good compared to traditional film). Anyway, I’m glad to learn Kodak had one proprietary format. I just do not think that makes a pattern. Sony dominated this field — make the media proprietary (by patent i assume), but let anyone create devices that use the format. Make the money on selling the media. They did this countless times; I’ve often thought about compiling a list - there are several failed media formats that never became popular. I thought Sony was behind HD-DVD (the blu-ray alternative), but it looks like that was Toshiba primarily (with Sony also backing it).
      - brudgers 4y ago
        Until this sentence I have not mentioned 110 film. Kodak made 101 format from 1895 to 1956. 124 until 1962. Speaking of Polaroid, very much proprietary.
frxx 4y ago
"35mm" film is called the 135 standard. As in 110/120/135/220, etc.
- ngcc_hk 4y ago
  Invented by leica

> And Kodak color film might be the prototype of vendor lock How? Those film cartridges were standard. There were many companies selling 110 film cartridges, 35mm film, etc.

brudgers 4y ago

In the early days of color film, the only way to get Kodak color film processed was by Kodak. Kodak as the only processing option goes all the way back to the Kodak No. 1 camera in the 19th century. Kodak produced a lot of roll film cameras that took unusual formats that practically speaking only Kodak sold. https://www.brownie-camera.com/film.shtml https://www.brownie-camera.com/film.shtml This continued into the 1970’s with with the Kodamatic instant film formats. While there were technically speaking other manufacturers of disc film and disc cameras, practically speaking they were synonymous with Kodak brand. That near exclusive film format only ceased manufacture in 1999.

TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
Even APS film canisters were made by Agfa and Fuji. I think you have selective memory. If disc film was the only format made by Kodak, that’s not really a pattern. there were many others (APS, 110, 124, Polaroid instant, etc) that were not. In any case even if Kodak did something like this 100 years ago, that does not preclude Sony from taking it to a new level in more modern times.
- frosted-flakes 4y ago
  Kodak's early cameras functioned like disposable cameras. You took your pictures, then you sent or brought your camera to Kodak to be developed. They would refill the camera with new film and send it back to you.
  - TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
    Hm, when was that? Even the Kodak Brownie from 1900 used rolls of film: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodak_Brownie https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodak_Brownie
    - frosted-flakes 4y ago
      Yes, but the camera had to be opened in a darkroom and the film manually cut up and developed. I'm sure you could acquire your own film and do it yourself, but it wasn't exactly approachable. But I expect that it was primarily a technological limitation, and not meant to be a form of vendor lock-in. "You Press the Button, We Do the Rest" was Kodak's marketing slogan. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Press_the_Button,_We_Do_the_Rest https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Press_the_Button,_We_Do_...
    - brudgers 4y ago
      Back when George Eastman was in his prime and Kodak was a plucky startup.
- brudgers 4y ago
  It’s not selective memory. Formats such as 101, 102, etc. we’re discontinued long before I was born. On the other hand, my grandparents had a Kodak instant camera instead of a Polaroid, I am in some of those pictures, and it was a proprietary format. Technicolor is another Kodak only film format, and Kodak was in the business of leasing the cameras to movie studios. Not that I have hate for Kodak or love for Sony or vice versa. I don’t have many strong emotions around brands. Ring, Nest, Alexa, Siri, Windows, NEF, CR3 etc etc the world is full of proprietary systems. Even John Deere combines. BTW, the Kodak business model for APS was selling new equipment to photo labs. Existing machines could not process it in a way that did what consumers were told APS would do.
  - TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
    > It’s not selective memory. Formats such as 101, 102, etc. we’re discontinued long before I was born. > On the other hand, my grandparents had a Kodak instant camera instead of a Polaroid, I am in some of those pictures, and it was a proprietary format. I think I must be a lot older than you. I used 110 and 124 for years. I can tell you firsthand these were not proprietary. Regarding Kodak instant, I never even heard of it until you wrote about it. Anyone who wanted instant photos bought Polaroid. I do not know if their cartridges were proprietary since I never owned one (the photo quality was not very good compared to traditional film). Anyway, I’m glad to learn Kodak had one proprietary format. I just do not think that makes a pattern. Sony dominated this field — make the media proprietary (by patent i assume), but let anyone create devices that use the format. Make the money on selling the media. They did this countless times; I’ve often thought about compiling a list - there are several failed media formats that never became popular. I thought Sony was behind HD-DVD (the blu-ray alternative), but it looks like that was Toshiba primarily (with Sony also backing it).
    - brudgers 4y ago
      Until this sentence I have not mentioned 110 film. Kodak made 101 format from 1895 to 1956. 124 until 1962. Speaking of Polaroid, very much proprietary.

frxx 4y ago

"35mm" film is called the 135 standard. As in 110/120/135/220, etc.

ngcc_hk 4y ago
Invented by leica