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this of course, is really meant for brochure or light interactivity sites. I don't think Figma should convert to htmx. I also don't think its meant for sites th

this of course, is really meant for brochure or light interactivity sites. I don't think Figma should convert to htmx. I also don't think its meant for sites that may need to honestly scale as part of their product line heavy JavaScript interactivity. For instance, I've definitely worked at a place that deployed well over 10K components to production (I think we pushed over a million lines of deployed production code). React & Angular do scale this far, I have yet to encounter any who works with Vue that ships over a million lines of deployed code though I'd love to hear from you!

sodapopcan 4y ago
To nitpick, Figma is not a good example as it’s essentially all Canvas.
recursivedoubts 4y ago
I don't think that "scale" is the right axis, but rather the amount of interdependence in your UI. htmx would probably work great for something like GMail, but would be a bad choice for something like Google Sheets. Both are big apps, but one is more amenable to coarse grain HTTP requests because the UI isn't as interdependent.
- vindarel 4y ago
  > Sheets Interestingly, I have seen a new app that provides a sheet with HTMX: https://www.licenseprompt.com/ https://www.licenseprompt.com/ (gif: https://twitter.com/WimpieNortje/status/1520419150245638144 https://twitter.com/WimpieNortje/status/1520419150245638144)
  - recursivedoubts 4y ago
    Yep, but the total dependency area there is relatively small and focused. Compare with something like a general spreadsheet, with any number of cells that need updating based on formulas entered in them. That's just not an application that is going to be amenable to a hypermedia approach.
henning 4y ago
No, it's meant for websites that don't require loading 8 MB of JavaScript. You've completely missed the point that "product line heavy JavaScript interactivity", whatever that means, is bullshit that doesn't solve any problems, it just creates new ones. You're saying "I have all this code, what do I do with all this code." The answer is: don't write it!
- no_wizard 4y ago
  No, I'm simply positing that HTMX doesn't fill the void of heavy web apps, like Figma, or Salesforce. At least not naturally. React does scale well in this way. So does Angular (though I don't care for it, which is another discussion entirely). Especially when you want maximal code sharing in your dependency chain. I never done it with Vue (largest Vue app I ever worked on had roughly 200K lines of deployed code, all in, for the application, very thick client type stuff), but maybe with Vue 3 and the composition API this isn't an issue (I don't think Vue 2 would ever scale well developer experience wise this way) I'm not throwing shade on HTMX, but there tends to be this energy around it that would make someone who, perhaps trying to weigh some options, stumbles across HN, sees threads like this and thinks oh gee! This sounds great without knowing exactly what that means. And it is true, that perhaps, that person is building app that needs scalable reactivity and fine-grained control, or something along those lines. I at least want to give a fair take on purpose for people thinking about it. HTMX is great for its target audience, much superior to jQuery in this day and age, but you have to understand what its for.
  - mixmastamyk 4y ago
    The time wasted by choosing htmx for the wrong job is probably quite small compared to choosing react for the wrong job.

sodapopcan 4y ago

To nitpick, Figma is not a good example as it’s essentially all Canvas.

recursivedoubts 4y ago

I don't think that "scale" is the right axis, but rather the amount of interdependence in your UI. htmx would probably work great for something like GMail, but would be a bad choice for something like Google Sheets. Both are big apps, but one is more amenable to coarse grain HTTP requests because the UI isn't as interdependent.

vindarel 4y ago
> Sheets Interestingly, I have seen a new app that provides a sheet with HTMX: https://www.licenseprompt.com/ https://www.licenseprompt.com/ (gif: https://twitter.com/WimpieNortje/status/1520419150245638144 https://twitter.com/WimpieNortje/status/1520419150245638144)
- recursivedoubts 4y ago
  Yep, but the total dependency area there is relatively small and focused. Compare with something like a general spreadsheet, with any number of cells that need updating based on formulas entered in them. That's just not an application that is going to be amenable to a hypermedia approach.

henning 4y ago

No, it's meant for websites that don't require loading 8 MB of JavaScript. You've completely missed the point that "product line heavy JavaScript interactivity", whatever that means, is bullshit that doesn't solve any problems, it just creates new ones. You're saying "I have all this code, what do I do with all this code." The answer is: don't write it!

no_wizard 4y ago
No, I'm simply positing that HTMX doesn't fill the void of heavy web apps, like Figma, or Salesforce. At least not naturally. React does scale well in this way. So does Angular (though I don't care for it, which is another discussion entirely). Especially when you want maximal code sharing in your dependency chain. I never done it with Vue (largest Vue app I ever worked on had roughly 200K lines of deployed code, all in, for the application, very thick client type stuff), but maybe with Vue 3 and the composition API this isn't an issue (I don't think Vue 2 would ever scale well developer experience wise this way) I'm not throwing shade on HTMX, but there tends to be this energy around it that would make someone who, perhaps trying to weigh some options, stumbles across HN, sees threads like this and thinks oh gee! This sounds great without knowing exactly what that means. And it is true, that perhaps, that person is building app that needs scalable reactivity and fine-grained control, or something along those lines. I at least want to give a fair take on purpose for people thinking about it. HTMX is great for its target audience, much superior to jQuery in this day and age, but you have to understand what its for.
- mixmastamyk 4y ago
  The time wasted by choosing htmx for the wrong job is probably quite small compared to choosing react for the wrong job.