8 ms·

An eye-opening perspective came to me a few years ago when I first heard the quote,” When you’re 20, you care what everyone thinks, when you’re 40 you stop cari

An eye-opening perspective came to me a few years ago when I first heard the quote,” When you’re 20, you care what everyone thinks, when you’re 40 you stop caring what everyone thinks, when you’re 60, you realize no one was ever thinking about you in the first place“[0] That can be good and bad, but is a personally useful frame of reference for the world. It helps to not take things too personally, but also to be intentionally active in people’s lives when I _want_ to be considered. [0], not sure who to attribute: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/mar/08/viral-image/no-winston-churchill-didnt-say-quote-about-age/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/mar/08/viral-imag...

abnry 4y ago
But it's only half true. The anxiety over how others' perceive you is perhaps overblown, but you'd discount a whole lot of anxiety as irrational if you say that nobody forms judgments about you.
- 2-718-281-828 4y ago
  one way to look at it might be realizing that people mostly don't judge you but a stereotype they project onto you. or simply have their judgement clouded by their mood. with a bad mood seeking for people to judge badly and good mood seeking to judge people positively. also what they judge about you is often more telling about what is going on with them and their life, so at the end of the day most people judge themselves. in all meditation practices the goal is to stop judging and instead observe - for a good reason - it's healing b/c then you also stop judging yourself all the time.
  - gzysk8 4y ago
    That's a helpful perspective. Whenever I feel social anxiety or the spotlight effect creep up, I also try to remember how little I'm actually thinking about what others are doing around me. Maybe it's obvious, but simply flipping the point of view in that moment can help you not judge yourself so much.
    - jimkleiber 4y ago
      Yes I do something similar and it seems to help. I'll ask myself, "How do I imagine this person might currently feel when they think about __?" And rotate thru different scenarios. Often I'll quickly realize how uncertain I am about their internal situation. I like how you talk about flipping it, maybe I can imagine how that person might imagine how I'm feeling right now as well. Thank you!
  - kelseyfrog 4y ago
    > people mostly don't judge you but a stereotype they project onto you. This point deserves expansion. Goffman's approach is how I first learned it. In order to explain the complexities of the world including the social world, people learn to typify behaviors. Typifications can become frames when they are used to interpret people's actions[1], "She did this because she's a woman" or "He did this because he's tired" where woman and tired are framing devices. Even "I did this because I was upset." It takes a lot of work to resist framing people's actions. Perhaps it's even impossible to truly apprehend unframed behavior since even language itself is a framing device. But, seeing people closer to who they are is always valuable, and overly applying frames or rushing to frame peoples' actions does them an injustice to seeing them for who they are. 1. These are specifically frames which explain behavior. There are an infinite variety of frames. Browsers are frames, this comment being on HN is a frame.
    - alexalx666 4y ago
      Is absence of frame a frame?
      - kelseyfrog 4y ago
        I came upon this today and thought you might enjoy it. > An absolute perspective, one of unconditioned objectivity, would, as Nietzsche says, have us “think an eye which cannot be thought at all, an eye turned in no direction at all, an eye where the active and interpretative powers are to be suppressed, absent, but through which seeing still becomes a seeing-something, so it is an absurdity and nonconcept of eye that is demanded.”
    - robocat 4y ago
      Framing and typification sound similar to literary deconstruction, except using words that are more comprehensible (less in-group).
- Aperocky 4y ago
  It's alright if people form judgments about me, just like I do about them. At the end of the day, mostly none of it matters, it's just easier to be authentic and straightforward all the time. Maybe the anxiety were not irrational, but I can choose not to have it anyways.
  - borroka 4y ago
    I used to think that way, too. I used to tell myself, "This is who I am," "I am authentic," "Who cares what they think." If your boss thinks you are an incompetent professional, or a rude and inadequate human being, or a weakling who gives in under pressure, it doesn't even matter if they are right or wrong, it's a big deal. The same goes for friends, family and all other people with whom we interact. We may or may not care, or care about some and not others, we may prefer "authenticity" to "appearance," but it is relevant. One thing I have learned over time: people think about you, not always and not all people. And you think about others, not all and not all the time. The "no one cares what you do" is often an overreaction to insecurity.
    - Aperocky 4y ago
      It crosses boundary when it affects others though. i.e. in professional settings and performance related categories. Being authentic does not translate to being a jerk or straight up sucking at work. But I don't quite worry about the fact that I'm growing bald or wearing a 15 year old tshirt half the time.
      - borroka 4y ago
        > But I don't quite worry about the fact that I'm growing bald or wearing a 15 year old tshirt half the time. That's a very good example, and I use it for a question. Let's say you are growing bald, you have been single for years, you have problems finding a partner, and it happens that (it is largely true according to my experience) women prefer men with hair (there are women who prefer bald, but having hair allows you to razor shave, so it means you can do hair and no hair). It is expected that a hair transplant, for which you have the necessary money, will increase your chances of finding a partner from 10% to 70%, however you want to interpret these numbers. Do you think that undergoing a hair transplant means (a) worrying excessively about the opinion of others, and thus you don't do it, (b) realizing that the world works a certain way and that listening to its feedback and adapting is, at least occasionally, a wise decision, and then having a transplant? I am for (b) (I am a woman, but still).
- pdimitar 4y ago
  It's not half true. It's 95% true because you and others form judgements about each other but they: 1. Almost never stick for a long time. 2. Are rarely deemed important (most people are not vengeful). 3. Are usually minor.
- unstatusthequo 4y ago
  For me, I don’t care what people think unless I respect them. If they haven’t earned my respect, why should I care about how they judge me?
- kieckerjan 4y ago
  Of course people form judgments about you. But it is very easy to exaggerate how consequential these judgments are. In the end, people are remarkably tolerant. They may think e.g. that you are an inconsiderate lout but that is perfectly ok with them as long as this does not hamper them in their own pursuits. Call it constructive disinterest.
winternett 4y ago
People still care very much about what Warren Buffett says... I think it's all about the value you generate during your lifetime, nut there's also the factor that people care about what Buffett says because they want to gain benefits from what he says, not because he's a particularly radiant guy and the life of the party.
8note 4y ago
This of course only applies to the people who don't matter. When you're going to face prison time for using your rights or helping other people use their rights, people are clearly thinking about you. There's no lack of doctors in very public view right now. Maybe nobody cares specifically about the doctor in particular, but they don't care about not ruining the doctor's life, let alone the woman who gets the abortion

abnry 4y ago

But it's only half true. The anxiety over how others' perceive you is perhaps overblown, but you'd discount a whole lot of anxiety as irrational if you say that nobody forms judgments about you.

2-718-281-828 4y ago
one way to look at it might be realizing that people mostly don't judge you but a stereotype they project onto you. or simply have their judgement clouded by their mood. with a bad mood seeking for people to judge badly and good mood seeking to judge people positively. also what they judge about you is often more telling about what is going on with them and their life, so at the end of the day most people judge themselves. in all meditation practices the goal is to stop judging and instead observe - for a good reason - it's healing b/c then you also stop judging yourself all the time.
- gzysk8 4y ago
  That's a helpful perspective. Whenever I feel social anxiety or the spotlight effect creep up, I also try to remember how little I'm actually thinking about what others are doing around me. Maybe it's obvious, but simply flipping the point of view in that moment can help you not judge yourself so much.
  - jimkleiber 4y ago
    Yes I do something similar and it seems to help. I'll ask myself, "How do I imagine this person might currently feel when they think about __?" And rotate thru different scenarios. Often I'll quickly realize how uncertain I am about their internal situation. I like how you talk about flipping it, maybe I can imagine how that person might imagine how I'm feeling right now as well. Thank you!
- kelseyfrog 4y ago
  > people mostly don't judge you but a stereotype they project onto you. This point deserves expansion. Goffman's approach is how I first learned it. In order to explain the complexities of the world including the social world, people learn to typify behaviors. Typifications can become frames when they are used to interpret people's actions[1], "She did this because she's a woman" or "He did this because he's tired" where woman and tired are framing devices. Even "I did this because I was upset." It takes a lot of work to resist framing people's actions. Perhaps it's even impossible to truly apprehend unframed behavior since even language itself is a framing device. But, seeing people closer to who they are is always valuable, and overly applying frames or rushing to frame peoples' actions does them an injustice to seeing them for who they are. 1. These are specifically frames which explain behavior. There are an infinite variety of frames. Browsers are frames, this comment being on HN is a frame.
  - alexalx666 4y ago
    Is absence of frame a frame?
    - kelseyfrog 4y ago
      I came upon this today and thought you might enjoy it. > An absolute perspective, one of unconditioned objectivity, would, as Nietzsche says, have us “think an eye which cannot be thought at all, an eye turned in no direction at all, an eye where the active and interpretative powers are to be suppressed, absent, but through which seeing still becomes a seeing-something, so it is an absurdity and nonconcept of eye that is demanded.”
  - robocat 4y ago
    Framing and typification sound similar to literary deconstruction, except using words that are more comprehensible (less in-group).
Aperocky 4y ago
It's alright if people form judgments about me, just like I do about them. At the end of the day, mostly none of it matters, it's just easier to be authentic and straightforward all the time. Maybe the anxiety were not irrational, but I can choose not to have it anyways.
- borroka 4y ago
  I used to think that way, too. I used to tell myself, "This is who I am," "I am authentic," "Who cares what they think." If your boss thinks you are an incompetent professional, or a rude and inadequate human being, or a weakling who gives in under pressure, it doesn't even matter if they are right or wrong, it's a big deal. The same goes for friends, family and all other people with whom we interact. We may or may not care, or care about some and not others, we may prefer "authenticity" to "appearance," but it is relevant. One thing I have learned over time: people think about you, not always and not all people. And you think about others, not all and not all the time. The "no one cares what you do" is often an overreaction to insecurity.
  - Aperocky 4y ago
    It crosses boundary when it affects others though. i.e. in professional settings and performance related categories. Being authentic does not translate to being a jerk or straight up sucking at work. But I don't quite worry about the fact that I'm growing bald or wearing a 15 year old tshirt half the time.
    - borroka 4y ago
      > But I don't quite worry about the fact that I'm growing bald or wearing a 15 year old tshirt half the time. That's a very good example, and I use it for a question. Let's say you are growing bald, you have been single for years, you have problems finding a partner, and it happens that (it is largely true according to my experience) women prefer men with hair (there are women who prefer bald, but having hair allows you to razor shave, so it means you can do hair and no hair). It is expected that a hair transplant, for which you have the necessary money, will increase your chances of finding a partner from 10% to 70%, however you want to interpret these numbers. Do you think that undergoing a hair transplant means (a) worrying excessively about the opinion of others, and thus you don't do it, (b) realizing that the world works a certain way and that listening to its feedback and adapting is, at least occasionally, a wise decision, and then having a transplant? I am for (b) (I am a woman, but still).
pdimitar 4y ago
It's not half true. It's 95% true because you and others form judgements about each other but they: 1. Almost never stick for a long time. 2. Are rarely deemed important (most people are not vengeful). 3. Are usually minor.
unstatusthequo 4y ago
For me, I don’t care what people think unless I respect them. If they haven’t earned my respect, why should I care about how they judge me?
kieckerjan 4y ago
Of course people form judgments about you. But it is very easy to exaggerate how consequential these judgments are. In the end, people are remarkably tolerant. They may think e.g. that you are an inconsiderate lout but that is perfectly ok with them as long as this does not hamper them in their own pursuits. Call it constructive disinterest.

winternett 4y ago

People still care very much about what Warren Buffett says... I think it's all about the value you generate during your lifetime, nut there's also the factor that people care about what Buffett says because they want to gain benefits from what he says, not because he's a particularly radiant guy and the life of the party.

8note 4y ago

This of course only applies to the people who don't matter. When you're going to face prison time for using your rights or helping other people use their rights, people are clearly thinking about you. There's no lack of doctors in very public view right now. Maybe nobody cares specifically about the doctor in particular, but they don't care about not ruining the doctor's life, let alone the woman who gets the abortion