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That's a lot of FUD about RoHS - especially for the consumer space. Don't you think that maybe everything built to be as cheap as possible to barely survive the

That's a lot of FUD about RoHS - especially for the consumer space. Don't you think that maybe everything built to be as cheap as possible to barely survive the warranty period is maybe a slightly larger effect than tin whiskers? Also old appliances typically contained less things that can break in the first place: What doesn't exist cannot break. It's just a function of cost, do you want to engineer your device/machine to last or not, and are more features more important to you than reliability.

com2kid 4y ago
> Don't you think that maybe everything built to be as cheap as possible to barely survive the warranty period is maybe a slightly larger effect than tin whiskers? YouTube recently recommended me some tear down videos of washing machines, for whatever reason. The video compared 1990s to modern machines. The insides are remarkably similar, the main failure point is the electronics, flat out. And in my experience (n=1), what fails on modern appliances is the electronics! Not the pumps or motors, sure sometimes those go out, but most often it is the control board. Look at every car built since 2010. Sure you have some models with known manufacturing defects on a given part, but replace that one part and mechanically most cars are reliable. But how many cars have you come across that run just fine, but the check engine light is stuck on and the mechanic is like "well I could fix it but it will cost a lot"? We have hundreds of years of knowledge about making reliable machines in massive quantities, and then cost reducing them (ok maybe 200 years tops), as a species we haven't even bothered trying to cost reduce reliable electronics! We just accept that they will fail.
- welterde 4y ago
  I also had my fair share of repairing home appliances (trying to anyway) and in my N~5 sample size I was not only limited to failed control boards. But having seen those control boards I am honestly surprised that they even survive the warranty period. They are that cheaply and badly made. From the circuit board itself to the components used. And of course not designed to be repairable at all. They have more in common with a cheap calculator than something that controls kWs of power. But allowing the manufacturer to use leaded solder would have made zero difference in their reliability. People absolutely can build reliable electronics these days, but it will be slightly more expensive than not quite so reliable electronics. Higher profit margin has a higher priority than making sure the product survives long after the warranty period has ended. Especially if the consumer only looks at the initial price without taking into consideration how long it will last. Which is also hard to do without reviewers tearing the machine to bits. Being expensive does not mean it is actually any good and will last a long time.

com2kid 4y ago

> Don't you think that maybe everything built to be as cheap as possible to barely survive the warranty period is maybe a slightly larger effect than tin whiskers? YouTube recently recommended me some tear down videos of washing machines, for whatever reason. The video compared 1990s to modern machines. The insides are remarkably similar, the main failure point is the electronics, flat out. And in my experience (n=1), what fails on modern appliances is the electronics! Not the pumps or motors, sure sometimes those go out, but most often it is the control board. Look at every car built since 2010. Sure you have some models with known manufacturing defects on a given part, but replace that one part and mechanically most cars are reliable. But how many cars have you come across that run just fine, but the check engine light is stuck on and the mechanic is like "well I could fix it but it will cost a lot"? We have hundreds of years of knowledge about making reliable machines in massive quantities, and then cost reducing them (ok maybe 200 years tops), as a species we haven't even bothered trying to cost reduce reliable electronics! We just accept that they will fail.

welterde 4y ago
I also had my fair share of repairing home appliances (trying to anyway) and in my N~5 sample size I was not only limited to failed control boards. But having seen those control boards I am honestly surprised that they even survive the warranty period. They are that cheaply and badly made. From the circuit board itself to the components used. And of course not designed to be repairable at all. They have more in common with a cheap calculator than something that controls kWs of power. But allowing the manufacturer to use leaded solder would have made zero difference in their reliability. People absolutely can build reliable electronics these days, but it will be slightly more expensive than not quite so reliable electronics. Higher profit margin has a higher priority than making sure the product survives long after the warranty period has ended. Especially if the consumer only looks at the initial price without taking into consideration how long it will last. Which is also hard to do without reviewers tearing the machine to bits. Being expensive does not mean it is actually any good and will last a long time.