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One could be wondering why there was a big pushback against nuclear energy in the first place. Especially that it hasn't happened in the neighboring France. Wa

by Varqu 4y ago

One could be wondering why there was a big pushback against nuclear energy in the first place. Especially that it hasn't happened in the neighboring France. Was it perhaps because of some hidden actors who pushed for the gas pipelines deals? I can imagine, that the Russian influences in Germany hasn't magically disappeared after the fall of Berlin wall.

s_dev 4y ago
>One could be wondering why there was a big pushback against nuclear energy in the first place. Fukushima incident had a big impact on German public opinion. Even at the time it was a obvious over reaction from the Germans.
- freeflight 4y ago
  > Fukushima incident had a big impact on German public opinion. Merkel already went against public opinion when she put in place running time extensions in late 2010 to delay the phase-out, that was massively controversial decision. Then only a few months later Fukushima blew up, so her already unpopular and controversial position became ultimately untannable. Particularly as many faults with German reactors were found during the [atom-moratorium](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom-Moratorium https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom-Moratorium) that was declared after Fukushima. Prior to that safety inspections were not even mandatory for the operators.
arrrg 4y ago
Not everything is a conspiracy theory. (Opposition to) nuclear energy is an emotional topic in Germany, one that mobilizes people. In a democratic society that leads to effects like the phase out of nuclear. It’s mind-numbingly simple and I do not understand at all why conspiracies are mentioned left, right and center in this thread.
- Varqu 4y ago
  Lobbyists are not a conspiracy theory. No matter if they act on behalf of businesses or state actors, one has to admit that they do exist and have influence over public policies. Also, the fact that in most countries there are multiple hidden agents acting on behalf of other countries hardly seems to be a conspiracy theory as well.
  - DoughnutHole 4y ago
    The lobbying is real but it usually can only amplify real, existing fears. In central Europe those fears were largely sparked by Chernobyl. There's a substantial age cohort in Germany who can remember when their parents wouldn't let them play outside, or remember the runs on iodine tablets - people who's earliest understanding of the word "nuclear" was either in reference to Chernobyl or to fears of nuclear armageddon. We know now that Chernobyl was a big deal in the immediate vicinity and not that huge of a deal continent-wide. But the climate in those early days was one of fear - in the midst of the Cold War a massive nuclear accident of unknown real severity in an untrusted neighbouring country was blanketing the continent in an unknown amount of radioactive material. You can make truthful and rational arguments until you're blue in the face but the issue is emotive - a lot of people's minds have been made up by frightening experiences early in life.
freeflight 4y ago
Anybody only "wondering" about that didn't try to look into the history of Germany and nuclear. It's home to one of the first long term nuclear storage sites in history, supposed to store the stuff for centuries, yet after only decades its become a generational mess. Add Chernobyl, Fukushima and the nuclear industry refusing to pay for the disposal of their waste, and Germany is a prime example of how and why nuclear fission is neither economical, nor sustainable. > Especially that it hasn't happened in the neighboring France. It's also happening in neighboring France [0], half their fleet has been offline for most of the summer [1]. A fleet that's already underfunded by billions [2], that's why the French reinvestment into new reactors was a very conservative and modest one with basically no reference to how even that will be financed. [0] https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/edf-extend-civaux-nuclear-outage-shut-down-reactors-chooz-safety-measures-2021-12-15/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/edf-extend-civaux-nuc... [1] https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2022/04/30/681274/French-authorities-say-half-of-nuclear-power-plants-are-now-offline-for-maintenance-or-defects https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2022/04/30/681274/French-autho..., [2] https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-europe-nuclear-idUKKCN0VP2KN https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-europe-nuclear-idUKKCN0VP...

by Varqu 4y ago

s_dev 4y ago

>One could be wondering why there was a big pushback against nuclear energy in the first place. Fukushima incident had a big impact on German public opinion. Even at the time it was a obvious over reaction from the Germans.

freeflight 4y ago
> Fukushima incident had a big impact on German public opinion. Merkel already went against public opinion when she put in place running time extensions in late 2010 to delay the phase-out, that was massively controversial decision. Then only a few months later Fukushima blew up, so her already unpopular and controversial position became ultimately untannable. Particularly as many faults with German reactors were found during the [atom-moratorium](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom-Moratorium https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom-Moratorium) that was declared after Fukushima. Prior to that safety inspections were not even mandatory for the operators.

arrrg 4y ago

Not everything is a conspiracy theory. (Opposition to) nuclear energy is an emotional topic in Germany, one that mobilizes people. In a democratic society that leads to effects like the phase out of nuclear. It’s mind-numbingly simple and I do not understand at all why conspiracies are mentioned left, right and center in this thread.

Varqu 4y ago
Lobbyists are not a conspiracy theory. No matter if they act on behalf of businesses or state actors, one has to admit that they do exist and have influence over public policies. Also, the fact that in most countries there are multiple hidden agents acting on behalf of other countries hardly seems to be a conspiracy theory as well.
- DoughnutHole 4y ago
  The lobbying is real but it usually can only amplify real, existing fears. In central Europe those fears were largely sparked by Chernobyl. There's a substantial age cohort in Germany who can remember when their parents wouldn't let them play outside, or remember the runs on iodine tablets - people who's earliest understanding of the word "nuclear" was either in reference to Chernobyl or to fears of nuclear armageddon. We know now that Chernobyl was a big deal in the immediate vicinity and not that huge of a deal continent-wide. But the climate in those early days was one of fear - in the midst of the Cold War a massive nuclear accident of unknown real severity in an untrusted neighbouring country was blanketing the continent in an unknown amount of radioactive material. You can make truthful and rational arguments until you're blue in the face but the issue is emotive - a lot of people's minds have been made up by frightening experiences early in life.

freeflight 4y ago

Anybody only "wondering" about that didn't try to look into the history of Germany and nuclear. It's home to one of the first long term nuclear storage sites in history, supposed to store the stuff for centuries, yet after only decades its become a generational mess. Add Chernobyl, Fukushima and the nuclear industry refusing to pay for the disposal of their waste, and Germany is a prime example of how and why nuclear fission is neither economical, nor sustainable. > Especially that it hasn't happened in the neighboring France. It's also happening in neighboring France [0], half their fleet has been offline for most of the summer [1]. A fleet that's already underfunded by billions [2], that's why the French reinvestment into new reactors was a very conservative and modest one with basically no reference to how even that will be financed. [0] https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/edf-extend-civaux-nuclear-outage-shut-down-reactors-chooz-safety-measures-2021-12-15/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/edf-extend-civaux-nuc... [1] https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2022/04/30/681274/French-authorities-say-half-of-nuclear-power-plants-are-now-offline-for-maintenance-or-defects https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2022/04/30/681274/French-autho..., [2] https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-europe-nuclear-idUKKCN0VP2KN https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-europe-nuclear-idUKKCN0VP...