5 ms·

Germany was actively trying to block labelling nuclear as green to make sure nuclear isn't eligible for subsidies [1]. France was pushing for nuclear energy to

Germany was actively trying to block labelling nuclear as green to make sure nuclear isn't eligible for subsidies [1]. France was pushing for nuclear energy to be added to the list. Nobody knows if it was just general erratic behaviour by the green party or just general hatred and jealousy towards the french. But let's also remember that France sold their turbine business due to pressure of the DoJ[2], has been talking about repatriating it[3] (which has not happened yet), but as of now has 29 out of 56 reactors out of commission and as a result, the energy powerhouse France is buying energy from Bavaria[4]. [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/germany-reject-eu-green-investment-label-nuclear-power-2022-05-16/ https://www.reuters.com/business/germany-reject-eu-green-inv... [2] https://www.economist.com/business/2019/01/17/how-the-american-takeover-of-a-french-national-champion-became-intertwined-in-a-corruption-investigation https://www.economist.com/business/2019/01/17/how-the-americ... [3] https://www.ouest-france.fr/environnement/nucleaire/nucleaire-edf-annonce-qu-il-va-racheter-les-turbines-arabelle-de-general-electric-steam-power-20618942-8a4e-11ec-b1a4-b42f8ae3c7af https://www.ouest-france.fr/environnement/nucleaire/nucleair... [4] https://www.merkur.de/bayern/atomkraftwerke-bayern-auswirkungen-preis-kosten-deutschland-frankreich-strom-gas-91651098.html https://www.merkur.de/bayern/atomkraftwerke-bayern-auswirkun...

guerrilla 4y ago
> Nobody knows if it was just general erratic behaviour by the green party or just general hatred and jealousy towards the french. Those are terrible explanations. There's a much simpler one: The oil and gas industry was able to corrupt Germany and not France.
- Bayart 4y ago
  Total doesn't have a stellar reputation abroad.
Bayart 4y ago
French lowered production capacity at the moment is largely due to delayed inspections because of Covid.
- piva00 4y ago
  Delayed inspections, rivers drying out affecting cooling, cracks in reactors, unusual corrosion, billions in debt after a Rosatom deal, etc. It's a very nuanced issue, I don't think it's very informed to say it's just due to delayed inspections... The inspections were what found cracks due to corrosion, repairs are taking really long.
- raxxorraxor 4y ago
  They changed laws to allow rivers getting heated more to keep plants running. Germany won't need nuclear and we have completely different problems with our infrastructure that leads to energy going to waste. We pay Austria and Switzerland regularly to take our energy because we have too much, we stop wind turbines and disconnect solar panels because the net is overflowing. This has created an industry because these countries have pump storage plants. Granted, these are required for wind and solar power to be effective. Germany has storages too but they are not attached to the net because of old laws that would make it costly. Basically you have to pay for the energy you save AND the energy you put back into the net. And France currently shows that nuclear isn't really a good choice for base load since they had to restrict power output due to heat. The plants are getting older and require a lot of maintenance. Energy production of the future should not concentrate on nuclear. It cannot compete on price and environmental factors in Europe. There are other places were it would fit better.
  - 4h53n 4y ago
    How does Germany plan to power the grid when there is no wind at night?
blfr 4y ago
Nobody knows if it was just general erratic behaviour by the green party or just general hatred and jealousy towards the french. It was neither. The German plan was to leverage "green" Russian gas for control over the EU. As usual, the grand German plan has ended with the continent on fire.
- cinntaile 4y ago
  Or they needed the gas for their industry and to heat themselves during winter, whichever is more reasonable.
- JacobThreeThree 4y ago
  If anything, I would speculate that it was the effectiveness of Russian gas lobbyists after Fukushima, convincing Germany to decommission all their nuclear power plants.
  - letier 4y ago
    One would think so, but the problem lies on the other side: https://www.dw.com/en/russian-gas-in-germany-a-complicated-50-year-relationship/a-61057166 https://www.dw.com/en/russian-gas-in-germany-a-complicated-5... Unfortunately i can’t find a non amp/mobile link…
    - JacobThreeThree 4y ago
      Interesting article, good to know the historical context.
      - rasz 4y ago
        For full historical context is best to also learn this: "expectation of eventual territorial expansion to the Baltic countries, Finland and Poland, with the approval of either the Western powers or Germany" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin's_speech_of_19_August_1939 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin's_speech_of_19_August_1... German–Soviet Trade and Credit Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Credit_Agreement_(1939) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Credit_A... "In the event of a territorial and political rearrangement of the areas belonging to the Polish state the spheres of influence of Germany and the U.S.S.R. shall be bounded approximately by the line of the rivers Narew, Vistula, and San." "With regard to Southeastern Europe attention is called by the Soviet side to its interest in Bessarabia (Moldova & Ukraine). The German side declares its complete political disinterestedness in these areas." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany%E2%80%93Soviet_Union_relations,_1918%E2%80%931941#Pact_and_commercial_deal_signings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany%E2%80%93Soviet_Union_r...
pydry 4y ago
France is also spending a large fortune to replace most but not all of its current generation capacity. Largely due to cost overruns and delays and aging plants. This will blow the costs of German solar + wind installations out of the water. Its reactors are getting old enough that their capacity factors have declined - in 2020 down to 62%. This isnt much ahead of the capacity factor of the best wind turbines (57%). Theyll be in just as much shit as Germany this winter as nuclear output is projected to fall still further. Why people are giving shit to Germany for not following their model mystifies me. Theyll be lighting up the coal too.
- marsokod 4y ago
  > Its reactors are getting old enough that their capacity factors have declined - in 2020 down to 62%. This isnt much ahead of the capacity factor of the best wind turbines (57%). The situation is a bit more nuanced than that. Yes the capacity factor has reduced but not only because they are getting old: 1. Wind and solar have priority access to the grid in France. If they are producing a lot, the NPPs have no choice but to cut their power output, reducing artificially their capacity factor. 2. The NPP reached their end of planned life, meaning they had to do an extensive refit to get a life extension. This is a bit more than just regular maintenance, these are upgrades to more current security standards. 3. As you said, the older the NPP become, the more maintenance is required

guerrilla 4y ago

> Nobody knows if it was just general erratic behaviour by the green party or just general hatred and jealousy towards the french. Those are terrible explanations. There's a much simpler one: The oil and gas industry was able to corrupt Germany and not France.

Bayart 4y ago
Total doesn't have a stellar reputation abroad.

Bayart 4y ago

French lowered production capacity at the moment is largely due to delayed inspections because of Covid.

piva00 4y ago
Delayed inspections, rivers drying out affecting cooling, cracks in reactors, unusual corrosion, billions in debt after a Rosatom deal, etc. It's a very nuanced issue, I don't think it's very informed to say it's just due to delayed inspections... The inspections were what found cracks due to corrosion, repairs are taking really long.
raxxorraxor 4y ago
They changed laws to allow rivers getting heated more to keep plants running. Germany won't need nuclear and we have completely different problems with our infrastructure that leads to energy going to waste. We pay Austria and Switzerland regularly to take our energy because we have too much, we stop wind turbines and disconnect solar panels because the net is overflowing. This has created an industry because these countries have pump storage plants. Granted, these are required for wind and solar power to be effective. Germany has storages too but they are not attached to the net because of old laws that would make it costly. Basically you have to pay for the energy you save AND the energy you put back into the net. And France currently shows that nuclear isn't really a good choice for base load since they had to restrict power output due to heat. The plants are getting older and require a lot of maintenance. Energy production of the future should not concentrate on nuclear. It cannot compete on price and environmental factors in Europe. There are other places were it would fit better.
- 4h53n 4y ago
  How does Germany plan to power the grid when there is no wind at night?

blfr 4y ago

Nobody knows if it was just general erratic behaviour by the green party or just general hatred and jealousy towards the french. It was neither. The German plan was to leverage "green" Russian gas for control over the EU. As usual, the grand German plan has ended with the continent on fire.

cinntaile 4y ago
Or they needed the gas for their industry and to heat themselves during winter, whichever is more reasonable.
JacobThreeThree 4y ago
If anything, I would speculate that it was the effectiveness of Russian gas lobbyists after Fukushima, convincing Germany to decommission all their nuclear power plants.
- letier 4y ago
  One would think so, but the problem lies on the other side: https://www.dw.com/en/russian-gas-in-germany-a-complicated-50-year-relationship/a-61057166 https://www.dw.com/en/russian-gas-in-germany-a-complicated-5... Unfortunately i can’t find a non amp/mobile link…
  - JacobThreeThree 4y ago
    Interesting article, good to know the historical context.
    - rasz 4y ago
      For full historical context is best to also learn this: "expectation of eventual territorial expansion to the Baltic countries, Finland and Poland, with the approval of either the Western powers or Germany" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin's_speech_of_19_August_1939 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin's_speech_of_19_August_1... German–Soviet Trade and Credit Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Credit_Agreement_(1939) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Credit_A... "In the event of a territorial and political rearrangement of the areas belonging to the Polish state the spheres of influence of Germany and the U.S.S.R. shall be bounded approximately by the line of the rivers Narew, Vistula, and San." "With regard to Southeastern Europe attention is called by the Soviet side to its interest in Bessarabia (Moldova & Ukraine). The German side declares its complete political disinterestedness in these areas." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany%E2%80%93Soviet_Union_relations,_1918%E2%80%931941#Pact_and_commercial_deal_signings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany%E2%80%93Soviet_Union_r...

pydry 4y ago

France is also spending a large fortune to replace most but not all of its current generation capacity. Largely due to cost overruns and delays and aging plants. This will blow the costs of German solar + wind installations out of the water. Its reactors are getting old enough that their capacity factors have declined - in 2020 down to 62%. This isnt much ahead of the capacity factor of the best wind turbines (57%). Theyll be in just as much shit as Germany this winter as nuclear output is projected to fall still further. Why people are giving shit to Germany for not following their model mystifies me. Theyll be lighting up the coal too.

marsokod 4y ago
> Its reactors are getting old enough that their capacity factors have declined - in 2020 down to 62%. This isnt much ahead of the capacity factor of the best wind turbines (57%). The situation is a bit more nuanced than that. Yes the capacity factor has reduced but not only because they are getting old: 1. Wind and solar have priority access to the grid in France. If they are producing a lot, the NPPs have no choice but to cut their power output, reducing artificially their capacity factor. 2. The NPP reached their end of planned life, meaning they had to do an extensive refit to get a life extension. This is a bit more than just regular maintenance, these are upgrades to more current security standards. 3. As you said, the older the NPP become, the more maintenance is required