4 ms·

This is yet another instance of a phenomenon: When you have good outcomes and bad outcomes, and you take some preventative measures to reduce the likelihood of

This is yet another instance of a phenomenon: When you have good outcomes and bad outcomes, and you take some preventative measures to reduce the likelihood of bad outcomes, as time goes by people start believing that the bad outcomes don't really exist and get rid of the preventative measures. Example, energy independence from Russia and shutting down nuclear reactors. Another example, people think there's no point in taking vaccines.

TheBlight 4y ago
Not all vaccines are equal. Just like all things labeled medicine are not equal and not equally beneficial/recommended for everyone.
- tomrod 4y ago
  I took grandparent comment's reference to be the resistance to COVID-19 vaccines, which could have prevented endemic establishment in the US of COVID-19 had the GOP base adopted them quicker (along with non-pharmaceutical interventions). The mRNA vaccines are an absolute gamechanger in this space. I am glad we have the technology available. EDIT: Whoa, people surprisingly hate this comment. It's true though -- rural red counties have been hit much harder, due to demographic factors, lower vaccine uptake as well as boosting, lower access, and lower testing generally (leading to higher serology rate differentials to reported counts). The entire state of GA, for example, looks like each county has low case counts compared to the rest of the US until you realize testing there only captures 1 in 4 cases. This selective intransigence to public health measures was a problem when there was one case, and has persisted to be a problem until today.
  - TheBlight 4y ago
    Hmm. Did the GOP's reach extend to the island nation of New Zealand on the other side of the globe?
    - nxm 4y ago
      What economic and costs are you willing to pay to be on lockdown for so long?
      - TheBlight 4y ago
        "Pay" implies there was some benefit that was purchased.
    - Schroedingersat 4y ago
      > Did the GOP's reach extend to the island nation of New Zealand on the other side of the globe? Well, yeah. New Zealand had great policies and good compliance. Then the same shitty murdoch and facebook led conspiracy theories, selfishness, and lies spread. Now they're dealing with the same issues as everyone else. Plus without the insane propaganda machine, lack of aid, and hoarding of unused vaccines we may not have even developed some of the mutations or had it become endemic in animal populations. At least people in new zealand had a chance to get fully vaccinated there and avoid the short term death toll though.
  - vanattab 4y ago
    This is false. There was no chance of ever stopping covid-19 from reaching endemic status with vaccines. Covid simply is too tranmisable and rapidly changing and spread quickly too wild animal populations such as deer. It was right to be cautious and attempt continment/eradication initially when there was still so much unknown but it's clear now we never stood a chance.
    - tomrod 4y ago
      > There was no chance of ever stopping covid-19 from reaching endemic status with vaccines >> COVID-19 vaccines, which could have prevented endemic establishment in the US of COVID-19 had the GOP base adopted them quicker _(along with non-pharmaceutical interventions)_.
      - xorcist 4y ago
        What are those interventions? Killing off all deer?
        tomrod 4y ago
        Feel free to research what each state/county chose to implement, most of which were never actually solidly set up (meaning the policies had large loopholes that made the NPi fairly ineffective). Note that the US Federal Govt could not implement a global set of policies, instead relying on antiquated design where individual states and counties implemented what they felt like without regard to geographical integration.
  - tuatoru 4y ago
    It's more likely to be vaccines for measles and DPT (diptheria, pertussis [whooping cough], and tetanus). No one gets those diseases [because of vaccines, unstated and ignored] and so there's no point inflicting the unspeakable horror of an innoculation on your precious precious baby... is the reasoning. My first wife was in this camp.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - treeman79 4y ago
    A GOP president pushed hard to get vaccine released in under a year. Also strongly recommend people take it. The issue came in forcing vs persuading. Also people who got Covid before vaccine were totally ignored and let in an awkward position of being demonized for a vaccine that is to late.
    - tomrod 4y ago
      They weren't ignored, they were given the same advice and a subset did not think it applied. That's different, in my view. Reinfections can and do occur -- lower than vaccine breakthrough for Delta, but not necessarily true for other strains like Omnicron and subvariants.
    - JacobThreeThree 4y ago
      >A GOP president pushed hard to get vaccine released in under a year. Also strongly recommend people take it. And his political opponents were actively undermining trust in the vaccines at that time. https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/563771-guess-who-undermined-public-confidence-in-vaccines/ https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/563771-guess-who-und... Seems like even people here have latched onto this partisan merry-go-round.
- lazide 4y ago
  Most of the resistance I’ve seen against vaccines have been against ones that are highly beneficial relative to their risks. Have you seen pushback against ones that weren’t? I’ve literally seen folks push back against Tetanus, Polio, MMR, etc.
  - mbg721 4y ago
    Tetanus and polio do horrifying things to the body; measles and mumps are sort of mid-level, right? And something like chicken pox has a vaccine now, but is relatively harmless if you catch it as a child.
    - abakker 4y ago
      Chicken pox may be harmless as a child. That virus also causes shingles and that is NOT harmless as an adult. edit to add: things like HPV seem harmless, but HPV infection is linked to the vast majority of cervical cancer. Things like epstein-barr are implicated in certain cancers as well. There are no "good viruses" and just because they have mild initial symptoms does not make them harmless.
    - adgjlsfhk1 4y ago
      Chicken pox vaccine prevents 8000 hospitalizations per year (in the US) https://www.cdc.gov/chickenpox/vaccine-infographic.html https://www.cdc.gov/chickenpox/vaccine-infographic.html. Measles vaccine prevents around 50000 hospitalizations per year.
    - kybernetikos 4y ago
      > chicken pox has a vaccine now, but is relatively harmless if you catch it as a child. I think if adults were catching a disease that took them out of action for a week in a fairly miserable way and gave them blisters that frequently ended up leaving permanent scars, we'd be taking it way more seriously. Kids don't make the decisions, and everyone remembers that they suffered through it, so kids these days should too...
      - lazide 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

TheBlight 4y ago

Not all vaccines are equal. Just like all things labeled medicine are not equal and not equally beneficial/recommended for everyone.

tomrod 4y ago
I took grandparent comment's reference to be the resistance to COVID-19 vaccines, which could have prevented endemic establishment in the US of COVID-19 had the GOP base adopted them quicker (along with non-pharmaceutical interventions). The mRNA vaccines are an absolute gamechanger in this space. I am glad we have the technology available. EDIT: Whoa, people surprisingly hate this comment. It's true though -- rural red counties have been hit much harder, due to demographic factors, lower vaccine uptake as well as boosting, lower access, and lower testing generally (leading to higher serology rate differentials to reported counts). The entire state of GA, for example, looks like each county has low case counts compared to the rest of the US until you realize testing there only captures 1 in 4 cases. This selective intransigence to public health measures was a problem when there was one case, and has persisted to be a problem until today.
- TheBlight 4y ago
  Hmm. Did the GOP's reach extend to the island nation of New Zealand on the other side of the globe?
  - nxm 4y ago
    What economic and costs are you willing to pay to be on lockdown for so long?
    - TheBlight 4y ago
      "Pay" implies there was some benefit that was purchased.
  - Schroedingersat 4y ago
    > Did the GOP's reach extend to the island nation of New Zealand on the other side of the globe? Well, yeah. New Zealand had great policies and good compliance. Then the same shitty murdoch and facebook led conspiracy theories, selfishness, and lies spread. Now they're dealing with the same issues as everyone else. Plus without the insane propaganda machine, lack of aid, and hoarding of unused vaccines we may not have even developed some of the mutations or had it become endemic in animal populations. At least people in new zealand had a chance to get fully vaccinated there and avoid the short term death toll though.
- vanattab 4y ago
  This is false. There was no chance of ever stopping covid-19 from reaching endemic status with vaccines. Covid simply is too tranmisable and rapidly changing and spread quickly too wild animal populations such as deer. It was right to be cautious and attempt continment/eradication initially when there was still so much unknown but it's clear now we never stood a chance.
  - tomrod 4y ago
    > There was no chance of ever stopping covid-19 from reaching endemic status with vaccines >> COVID-19 vaccines, which could have prevented endemic establishment in the US of COVID-19 had the GOP base adopted them quicker _(along with non-pharmaceutical interventions)_.
    - xorcist 4y ago
      What are those interventions? Killing off all deer?
      - tomrod 4y ago
        Feel free to research what each state/county chose to implement, most of which were never actually solidly set up (meaning the policies had large loopholes that made the NPi fairly ineffective). Note that the US Federal Govt could not implement a global set of policies, instead relying on antiquated design where individual states and counties implemented what they felt like without regard to geographical integration.
- tuatoru 4y ago
  It's more likely to be vaccines for measles and DPT (diptheria, pertussis [whooping cough], and tetanus). No one gets those diseases [because of vaccines, unstated and ignored] and so there's no point inflicting the unspeakable horror of an innoculation on your precious precious baby... is the reasoning. My first wife was in this camp.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- treeman79 4y ago
  A GOP president pushed hard to get vaccine released in under a year. Also strongly recommend people take it. The issue came in forcing vs persuading. Also people who got Covid before vaccine were totally ignored and let in an awkward position of being demonized for a vaccine that is to late.
  - tomrod 4y ago
    They weren't ignored, they were given the same advice and a subset did not think it applied. That's different, in my view. Reinfections can and do occur -- lower than vaccine breakthrough for Delta, but not necessarily true for other strains like Omnicron and subvariants.
  - JacobThreeThree 4y ago
    >A GOP president pushed hard to get vaccine released in under a year. Also strongly recommend people take it. And his political opponents were actively undermining trust in the vaccines at that time. https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/563771-guess-who-undermined-public-confidence-in-vaccines/ https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/563771-guess-who-und... Seems like even people here have latched onto this partisan merry-go-round.
lazide 4y ago
Most of the resistance I’ve seen against vaccines have been against ones that are highly beneficial relative to their risks. Have you seen pushback against ones that weren’t? I’ve literally seen folks push back against Tetanus, Polio, MMR, etc.
- mbg721 4y ago
  Tetanus and polio do horrifying things to the body; measles and mumps are sort of mid-level, right? And something like chicken pox has a vaccine now, but is relatively harmless if you catch it as a child.
  - abakker 4y ago
    Chicken pox may be harmless as a child. That virus also causes shingles and that is NOT harmless as an adult. edit to add: things like HPV seem harmless, but HPV infection is linked to the vast majority of cervical cancer. Things like epstein-barr are implicated in certain cancers as well. There are no "good viruses" and just because they have mild initial symptoms does not make them harmless.
  - adgjlsfhk1 4y ago
    Chicken pox vaccine prevents 8000 hospitalizations per year (in the US) https://www.cdc.gov/chickenpox/vaccine-infographic.html https://www.cdc.gov/chickenpox/vaccine-infographic.html. Measles vaccine prevents around 50000 hospitalizations per year.
  - kybernetikos 4y ago
    > chicken pox has a vaccine now, but is relatively harmless if you catch it as a child. I think if adults were catching a disease that took them out of action for a week in a fairly miserable way and gave them blisters that frequently ended up leaving permanent scars, we'd be taking it way more seriously. Kids don't make the decisions, and everyone remembers that they suffered through it, so kids these days should too...
    - lazide 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]