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If nuclear was an easy solution the French reactors would be running. Or as the article states. > In France, nuclear availability is currently at 24.8 GW, less

If nuclear was an easy solution the French reactors would be running. Or as the article states. > In France, nuclear availability is currently at 24.8 GW, less than half the installed capacity of 61.4 GW due to safety checks at several reactors. The real problem isn't electricity, it is natural gas as a feedstock for industry and for heating. There you don't have the same instant fungibility pure electricity brings, and nuclear can't magically solve either.

xyzzyz 4y ago
You can easily heat houses with electricity, and, with more effort, you can convert most of industrial processes to use electricity instead of gas. The reason it hadn’t been done is that it was significantly more expensive than using gas. However, with gas gone, and with hypothetical abundant nuclear, this would not have been the case. Arguing against nuclear because “electricity doesn’t help heat houses” is extremely strange, bordering on deceptive.
- Gwypaas 4y ago
  Heat pumps are amazing, but it's a project where the time span is decades to convert half a continent. It doesn't solve this winter. I firmly believe heat pumps and renewable energy is the future. But that can only become the solution in the time span of 5-10 years.
  - xyzzyz 4y ago
    In the short term, you can use resistive space heaters. This is, to be sure, 2-3x times more expensive than heat pumps, but given the cost of gas, might still be worth it. Point is, nuclear helps, and a couple of extra gigawatts day and night makes a difference.
- _ph_ 4y ago
  Yes, all the gas usages can and will be replaced by electricity. Which will come from renewables. The 3 remaining German nuclear reactors won't make much of a difference here, but yes, those which are in any shape for it, should run e bit longer. Though one has to take into account, that the maintenance was set up according to operate them to the end of the year, so a lot of maintenance would be necessary for any longer operation time. No where there is abundant nuclear visible, new build projects have vastly overrun any time and fiscal budgets.
  - mcronce 4y ago
    > Which will come from renewables. This is something solar/wind zealots often like to repeat, while hand-waving away the fact that those energy sources work when they want to, not when you want them to. If you want a reliable, clean power grid, there's one option, and it's not solar and wind.
    - _ph_ 4y ago
      That is wrong. There are multiple options and the environmental friendly ones consist of mostly solar and wind.
      - mcronce 4y ago
        Not really, no. You either need storage tech that doesn't exist and might or might not be possible, or you need to grossly overbuild intermittent sources everywhere and make megagrids, the likes of which the world has never seen. Maybe those are possible. Maybe they aren't. We don't know. There is precisely one known working option.
  - xyzzyz 4y ago
    In Germany, electricity from photovoltaic won’t replace gas for winter heating. That’s why nuclear is so crucial in Europe, where, unlike in US, photovoltaics are much less practical, due to weather and land use constraints.
BaseballPhysics 4y ago
> If nuclear was an easy solution the French reactors would be running. To me the French nuclear situation is just another example of why privatizing public infrastructure is an exceptionally stupid idea. In the free market, the consequences of failing to perform long-term infrastructure maintenance is a negative externality, and so it doesn't get done.
- Gwypaas 4y ago
  Good then that the French nuclear reactors are to 84.5% owned by the French government. It is currently being renationalized due to facing bankruptcy. > On 6 July 2022, French prime minister Elisabeth Borne announced that "the French government is aiming for a full nationalization of" EDF.[31][55] Borne "vowed" to limit the impact of the rise in energy prices through the state having "full control over...electricity production and performance.” Borne told parliament, "we must ensure our sovereignty in the face of...the colossal challenges to come."[56] Earlier in 2022, President Emmanuel Macron had "suggested" a renationalization of EDF as well as a "big expansion of nuclear energy in the coming decades"[57] however, in 2021, he had to scrap an "overhaul" of EDF, codenamed "Project Herculesl," that would have placed EDF's profitable renewables sector in a new company, due to opposition by unions and objections raised by the European Commission.[58] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89lectricit%C3%A9_de_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89lectricit%C3%A9_de_Franc...
  - ElKrist 4y ago
    When your main stakeholder (French State) forces you to sell your production way below market rates to your competitors, leaving you with a 8bn€ loss for 2022, it's no surprise EDF struggles financially [1]. For context, this measure was an effort to help competitors not rise their prices too much for the end consumers. Instead of taking the money from its budget, the State took it from EDF's. [1] https://www.edf.fr/groupe-edf/espaces-dedies/journalistes/tous-les-communiques-de-presse/mesures-exceptionnelles-annoncees-par-le-gouvernement-francais https://www.edf.fr/groupe-edf/espaces-dedies/journalistes/to...
    - 4y ago
Algent 4y ago
I have concern about the source website, seem to aggregate climate change denier oriented news. But about these number it's true, lot of maintenance is usually pushed back to the summer so it's ready to take the high load of heaters in the winter. You can check it real time here: https://www.rte-france.com/eco2mix/la-production-delectricite-par-filiere https://www.rte-france.com/eco2mix/la-production-delectricit... Also since 2010 French energy production have to be sold by EDF at loss to help private reseller make more margins and "open the market". This cause several bn of loss per year which is money not available to construct new reactors or pay for proper maintenance. EDF was also forced to buy Areva when their reactor branch went under because of abysmal management of money on major projects... which EDF now also have to support. Long story short French energy production isn't looking good lately, reactors are getting older and only one is currently being made but the project is several years late.
- Gwypaas 4y ago
  My take is that the French government wants to have a nuclear industry to share the costs with the military side. Thus subsidizing nuclear submarines, carriers and nuclear weapons while keeping a skilled industry to base it on. To allow this the population get subsidized electricity, and everyone else can read about the amazingly cheap electricity in France even though it's a pure subsidy. In 2010, as part of the progressive liberalisation of the energy market under EU directives, France agreed the Accès régulé à l'électricité nucléaire historique (ARENH) regulations that allowed third party suppliers access up to about a quarter of France's pre-2011 nuclear generation capacity, at a fixed price of €42/MWh from 1 July 2011 until 31 December 2025.[57][58][59] > As of 2015, France's household electricity price, excluding taxation, is the 12th cheapest amongst the 28 member European Union and the second-cheapest to industrial consumers.[60] The actual cost of generating electricity by nuclear power is not published by EDF or the French government but is estimated to be between €59/MWh and €83/MWh.[61] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France
  - ElKrist 4y ago
    You say that nuclear in France is not profitable and so is subsidized (potentially, don't want to argue that here). To back this you use the fact France agreed to a mechanism (ARENH) to sell its electricity BELOW market rates (this is true). The logical connection makes no sense. If you want to keep something alive and need subsidies for it, why would you on top of that decide to make even more losses on it? Now, we could agree that maybe France did not have the choice to agree. But don't use ARENH as a proof that nuclear is subsidized
hocuspocus 4y ago
Note that the sad state of French nuclear is of course mainly due to internal incompetence (and mismanagement, Anne Lauvergeon should probably be in jail) and poor planning. However, the Areva-Siemens (and Alstom) quagmire, and the insane electricity market liberalization pushed by the EU have also played a role. German policies not only managed to destroy domestic nuclear, but also cripple the French.
- wewxjfq 4y ago
  > German policies not only managed to destroy domestic nuclear, but also cripple the French. Why do I always see this shameless bullshitting in favor of nuclear energy?
lm28469 4y ago
France's problem isn't nuclear, it's piss poor management and decades of political laziness. We had a better infrastructure 30 years ago, back when politicians had long term plans for the future of their country and planned further than to the next election

xyzzyz 4y ago

You can easily heat houses with electricity, and, with more effort, you can convert most of industrial processes to use electricity instead of gas. The reason it hadn’t been done is that it was significantly more expensive than using gas. However, with gas gone, and with hypothetical abundant nuclear, this would not have been the case. Arguing against nuclear because “electricity doesn’t help heat houses” is extremely strange, bordering on deceptive.

Gwypaas 4y ago
Heat pumps are amazing, but it's a project where the time span is decades to convert half a continent. It doesn't solve this winter. I firmly believe heat pumps and renewable energy is the future. But that can only become the solution in the time span of 5-10 years.
- xyzzyz 4y ago
  In the short term, you can use resistive space heaters. This is, to be sure, 2-3x times more expensive than heat pumps, but given the cost of gas, might still be worth it. Point is, nuclear helps, and a couple of extra gigawatts day and night makes a difference.
_ph_ 4y ago
Yes, all the gas usages can and will be replaced by electricity. Which will come from renewables. The 3 remaining German nuclear reactors won't make much of a difference here, but yes, those which are in any shape for it, should run e bit longer. Though one has to take into account, that the maintenance was set up according to operate them to the end of the year, so a lot of maintenance would be necessary for any longer operation time. No where there is abundant nuclear visible, new build projects have vastly overrun any time and fiscal budgets.
- mcronce 4y ago
  > Which will come from renewables. This is something solar/wind zealots often like to repeat, while hand-waving away the fact that those energy sources work when they want to, not when you want them to. If you want a reliable, clean power grid, there's one option, and it's not solar and wind.
  - _ph_ 4y ago
    That is wrong. There are multiple options and the environmental friendly ones consist of mostly solar and wind.
    - mcronce 4y ago
      Not really, no. You either need storage tech that doesn't exist and might or might not be possible, or you need to grossly overbuild intermittent sources everywhere and make megagrids, the likes of which the world has never seen. Maybe those are possible. Maybe they aren't. We don't know. There is precisely one known working option.
- xyzzyz 4y ago
  In Germany, electricity from photovoltaic won’t replace gas for winter heating. That’s why nuclear is so crucial in Europe, where, unlike in US, photovoltaics are much less practical, due to weather and land use constraints.

BaseballPhysics 4y ago

> If nuclear was an easy solution the French reactors would be running. To me the French nuclear situation is just another example of why privatizing public infrastructure is an exceptionally stupid idea. In the free market, the consequences of failing to perform long-term infrastructure maintenance is a negative externality, and so it doesn't get done.

Gwypaas 4y ago
Good then that the French nuclear reactors are to 84.5% owned by the French government. It is currently being renationalized due to facing bankruptcy. > On 6 July 2022, French prime minister Elisabeth Borne announced that "the French government is aiming for a full nationalization of" EDF.[31][55] Borne "vowed" to limit the impact of the rise in energy prices through the state having "full control over...electricity production and performance.” Borne told parliament, "we must ensure our sovereignty in the face of...the colossal challenges to come."[56] Earlier in 2022, President Emmanuel Macron had "suggested" a renationalization of EDF as well as a "big expansion of nuclear energy in the coming decades"[57] however, in 2021, he had to scrap an "overhaul" of EDF, codenamed "Project Herculesl," that would have placed EDF's profitable renewables sector in a new company, due to opposition by unions and objections raised by the European Commission.[58] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89lectricit%C3%A9_de_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89lectricit%C3%A9_de_Franc...
- ElKrist 4y ago
  When your main stakeholder (French State) forces you to sell your production way below market rates to your competitors, leaving you with a 8bn€ loss for 2022, it's no surprise EDF struggles financially [1]. For context, this measure was an effort to help competitors not rise their prices too much for the end consumers. Instead of taking the money from its budget, the State took it from EDF's. [1] https://www.edf.fr/groupe-edf/espaces-dedies/journalistes/tous-les-communiques-de-presse/mesures-exceptionnelles-annoncees-par-le-gouvernement-francais https://www.edf.fr/groupe-edf/espaces-dedies/journalistes/to...
  - 4y ago

Algent 4y ago

I have concern about the source website, seem to aggregate climate change denier oriented news. But about these number it's true, lot of maintenance is usually pushed back to the summer so it's ready to take the high load of heaters in the winter. You can check it real time here: https://www.rte-france.com/eco2mix/la-production-delectricite-par-filiere https://www.rte-france.com/eco2mix/la-production-delectricit... Also since 2010 French energy production have to be sold by EDF at loss to help private reseller make more margins and "open the market". This cause several bn of loss per year which is money not available to construct new reactors or pay for proper maintenance. EDF was also forced to buy Areva when their reactor branch went under because of abysmal management of money on major projects... which EDF now also have to support. Long story short French energy production isn't looking good lately, reactors are getting older and only one is currently being made but the project is several years late.

Gwypaas 4y ago
My take is that the French government wants to have a nuclear industry to share the costs with the military side. Thus subsidizing nuclear submarines, carriers and nuclear weapons while keeping a skilled industry to base it on. To allow this the population get subsidized electricity, and everyone else can read about the amazingly cheap electricity in France even though it's a pure subsidy. In 2010, as part of the progressive liberalisation of the energy market under EU directives, France agreed the Accès régulé à l'électricité nucléaire historique (ARENH) regulations that allowed third party suppliers access up to about a quarter of France's pre-2011 nuclear generation capacity, at a fixed price of €42/MWh from 1 July 2011 until 31 December 2025.[57][58][59] > As of 2015, France's household electricity price, excluding taxation, is the 12th cheapest amongst the 28 member European Union and the second-cheapest to industrial consumers.[60] The actual cost of generating electricity by nuclear power is not published by EDF or the French government but is estimated to be between €59/MWh and €83/MWh.[61] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France
- ElKrist 4y ago
  You say that nuclear in France is not profitable and so is subsidized (potentially, don't want to argue that here). To back this you use the fact France agreed to a mechanism (ARENH) to sell its electricity BELOW market rates (this is true). The logical connection makes no sense. If you want to keep something alive and need subsidies for it, why would you on top of that decide to make even more losses on it? Now, we could agree that maybe France did not have the choice to agree. But don't use ARENH as a proof that nuclear is subsidized

hocuspocus 4y ago

Note that the sad state of French nuclear is of course mainly due to internal incompetence (and mismanagement, Anne Lauvergeon should probably be in jail) and poor planning. However, the Areva-Siemens (and Alstom) quagmire, and the insane electricity market liberalization pushed by the EU have also played a role. German policies not only managed to destroy domestic nuclear, but also cripple the French.

wewxjfq 4y ago
> German policies not only managed to destroy domestic nuclear, but also cripple the French. Why do I always see this shameless bullshitting in favor of nuclear energy?

lm28469 4y ago

France's problem isn't nuclear, it's piss poor management and decades of political laziness. We had a better infrastructure 30 years ago, back when politicians had long term plans for the future of their country and planned further than to the next election