4 ms·

> Imagine outsiders telling you that half your country is untouchable As a Brazilian, I would be completely ok with that. We can handle people telling us those

by ratww 4y ago

> Imagine outsiders telling you that half your country is untouchable As a Brazilian, I would be completely ok with that. We can handle people telling us those things.

boeingUH60 4y ago
>As a Brazilian, I would be completely ok with that. Well, that's your view, and you have the right to have it. But, it's likely that the majority doesn't agree. Besides, if you ask me, outsiders that tell a country to not cut down their forests for economic/monetary purposes should pay for that privilege. That's not to talk of the arrogance of outsiders telling someone what to do.
- ratww 4y ago
  Brazil is a "grown up" country. We can handle criticism. We don't need people being condescending to us about what others can or can't say to us. Let us brazilians defend ourselves, please? Another reason I'm fine with criticism is because the people saying "let Brazil deforest, we also did it" are the ones being favoured by Brazil fucking up the country. Europeans/Americans/Chinese are enjoying cheap Brazilian primary sector imports to the detriment of the rest of the Brazilian population. I also completely disagree that in 2022 Brazil will turn into a developed country by being a colony.
Aerroon 4y ago
>As a Brazilian, I would be completely ok with that. We can handle people telling us those things. Would you? Because this would absolutely escalate from words to actions. I could foresee this leading to quotas that if they're not met carry economic sanctions with them. That doesn't improve Brazil, does it? Sovereignty means that nobody outside of Brazil gets a say without offering something major in return.
- ratww 4y ago
  > That doesn't improve Brazil, does it? I happen to believe that it does. In the worst case, we get to keep the forest. > Sovereignty means that nobody outside of Brazil gets a say without offering something major in return. First world countries used to give us money for keeping the forest but the current government (prior to 2019, "the annual donations to the Amazon Fund have amounted to nearly $1.3 billion" [1]). We could get back to that. However I also happen to believe that, at best, the deforestation part is not important for Brazil's economy at all. Several others have mentioned [2][3] (and I agree with them) that the deforestation part is actually damaging to the economy and to the livelihood of law-following Brazilians, and is borne out of illegal activity. The current government could just start following the (Brazilian) law and the issue would disappear. Ah, but police is expensive, you say. Well, they could have used the 1.3 billion from EU/US. Maybe a new government will be able to get that back, one can only hope. [1] https://gizmodo.com/big-donors-are-pulling-out-of-brazils-amazon-fund-and-t-1837305577 https://gizmodo.com/big-donors-are-pulling-out-of-brazils-am... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32154495 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32154495 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32152630 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32152630

by ratww 4y ago

> Imagine outsiders telling you that half your country is untouchable As a Brazilian, I would be completely ok with that. We can handle people telling us those things.

boeingUH60 4y ago

>As a Brazilian, I would be completely ok with that. Well, that's your view, and you have the right to have it. But, it's likely that the majority doesn't agree. Besides, if you ask me, outsiders that tell a country to not cut down their forests for economic/monetary purposes should pay for that privilege. That's not to talk of the arrogance of outsiders telling someone what to do.

ratww 4y ago
Brazil is a "grown up" country. We can handle criticism. We don't need people being condescending to us about what others can or can't say to us. Let us brazilians defend ourselves, please? Another reason I'm fine with criticism is because the people saying "let Brazil deforest, we also did it" are the ones being favoured by Brazil fucking up the country. Europeans/Americans/Chinese are enjoying cheap Brazilian primary sector imports to the detriment of the rest of the Brazilian population. I also completely disagree that in 2022 Brazil will turn into a developed country by being a colony.

Aerroon 4y ago

>As a Brazilian, I would be completely ok with that. We can handle people telling us those things. Would you? Because this would absolutely escalate from words to actions. I could foresee this leading to quotas that if they're not met carry economic sanctions with them. That doesn't improve Brazil, does it? Sovereignty means that nobody outside of Brazil gets a say without offering something major in return.

ratww 4y ago
> That doesn't improve Brazil, does it? I happen to believe that it does. In the worst case, we get to keep the forest. > Sovereignty means that nobody outside of Brazil gets a say without offering something major in return. First world countries used to give us money for keeping the forest but the current government (prior to 2019, "the annual donations to the Amazon Fund have amounted to nearly $1.3 billion" [1]). We could get back to that. However I also happen to believe that, at best, the deforestation part is not important for Brazil's economy at all. Several others have mentioned [2][3] (and I agree with them) that the deforestation part is actually damaging to the economy and to the livelihood of law-following Brazilians, and is borne out of illegal activity. The current government could just start following the (Brazilian) law and the issue would disappear. Ah, but police is expensive, you say. Well, they could have used the 1.3 billion from EU/US. Maybe a new government will be able to get that back, one can only hope. [1] https://gizmodo.com/big-donors-are-pulling-out-of-brazils-amazon-fund-and-t-1837305577 https://gizmodo.com/big-donors-are-pulling-out-of-brazils-am... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32154495 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32154495 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32152630 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32152630