6 ms·

I am very skeptical of how they calculated the baseball numbers. Yes of course if you buy a whole bunch of stadium food it is expensive, but one of the entire

I am very skeptical of how they calculated the baseball numbers. Yes of course if you buy a whole bunch of stadium food it is expensive, but one of the entire gimmicks of the baseball stadium is that they make most of the money on beer and food. The thing is, food is optional! This is a form of progressive pricing that allows the team to charge people who are price insensitive more while still being affordable. Most baseball stadiums also have constant or frequent promotions for seating in the outfield berm, or standing room only, or last-minute walk ups, etc, which are very cheap. I recall walking up to the Astros stadium and getting $8 tickets just as the game was starting. So if you really want to go to a game but you don’t have very much money, there are usually ways that you can get in for very cheap. Parking is weird to include because it varies a LOT depending on the setting. Much like the airport, there are usually unofficial parking options just a bit further from the stadium that are much cheaper than the official parking - though this is less true for the suburban stadiums. One last thing is to note that the experience at the stadium has changed enormously. Stadiums in the 60s were basically a bigger version of high school bleachers. Now they’re luxury palaces. What has really happened is the stadium experience used to be much more equal, and now it reflects and capitalizes on increased economic inequality - offering wealthy fans a super-premium experience for a ridiculous price. I think that’s the actual problem. What used to be an extremely “democratic” past time is now an extremely unequal experience. And while I don’t think that is baseball’s fault, I think it’s a negative reflection of the broader economic changes since the 1950s.

Spooky23 4y ago
I agree, especially when looking at Mets and Yankees tickets. The price difference isn’t really there. We are a huge baseball family do a big extended family trip to the Yankees every year - usually $5-12 for 30 bleacher seats to a weekday game. I’m a Mets fan, and we usually do a few of games a year. One of the things about the baseball experience is there are lots of ways to enjoy it. Usually we do one “big” trip where we score a deal on a resale ticket behind the plate or first base, often including food for $100-150. Then we’ll do a couple of SRO or upper deck trips with a $5-12 ticket. And we’ll also do lower level outfield tickets for $30-80. I grew up I the 80s, and times weren’t all magic and marshmallows then either. My dad worked for the city and my mom was a nurse. We couldn’t afford fancy baseline seats at big city ballparks then either. Baseball is different in smaller markets though. If you’re in Pittsburgh or Cincinnati, your baseball ticket options are very different.
allturtles 4y ago
> Yes of course if you buy a whole bunch of Stadium food it is expensive, but one of the entire gimmicks of the baseball stadium is that they make most of the money on beer and food. The thing is, food is optional! This is a form of progressive pricing that allows the team to charge people who are price insensitive more while still being affordable. I don't think it's realistic to expect a family of four to have a good time sitting through a three hour baseball game without any food. And if their historical pricing data is correct, food and drink prices were comparatively much more reasonable in the 60s, so it's not a inherent property of ballparks to have outrageous concession prices. > One last thing is to note that the experience at the stadium has changed enormously. Stadiums in the 60s were basically a bigger version of high school bleachers. Now they’re luxury palaces. Here's a picture of the seats at Coors Field today [0]. Here's some pictures of 1960s baseball stadium seating [1][2]. They look pretty much the same to me. Now you get a cupholder, I guess? [0]: https://www.thedenverchannel.com/sports/rockies/heres-what-going-to-a-rockies-game-at-coors-field-will-look-like-this-year https://www.thedenverchannel.com/sports/rockies/heres-what-g... [1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/19/sports/baseball/al-jackson-dead.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/19/sports/baseball/al-jackso... [2]: https://nxstrib-com.go-vip.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2015/04/cubs6.png https://nxstrib-com.go-vip.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/20...
- njarboe 4y ago
  When I went to an Oakland A's game about a decade ago you were allowed to bring in your own food (not alcohol, of course). Not sure if that is still the case or if other stadiums allow that also. Getting a hot dog is fun, but you could bring in peanuts, popcorn, sandwiches, etc. and many people did.
  - crftr 4y ago
    I'm a Padres fan, and I regularly see folks bring in Jimmy John sandwiches and candy. It's not a secret, but rarely publicized either.
    - bombcar 4y ago
dylan604 4y ago
I've been to a few different stadiums and been in several different suites (as a vendor, not like I'd ever pay for that crap). A lot of the game is spent watching TV screens in the suite watching the same thing that people at home are seeing for free-ish. Jerry World (aka where the Cowboys play for those not familiar) has ground level suites where you are actually standing slightly below the field. Once the game starts and the teams are along the sidelines in their normal placements, all you see are the backsides of the players waiting to do their jobs. Again, you spend the majority of the time looking up at the giant TV to see actual game play. Clear evidence that a fool and his money are easily parted.
- bombcar 4y ago
  Even worse - I've been to the suites at Petco park; where a Major League Baseball game was going on, and everyone was watching basketball or other sports on the TVs. Nobody besides me and one other dude even bothered to go out on the balcony and watch the game. Of course, these were "free tickets" from vendor schmooze, so perhaps that's understandable.
- mitchdoogle 4y ago
  Those ground level suites at the Cowboys game look pretty cool to me. It's a different level of experience, like literally being in the middle of the action, getting the same vantage point as players and coaches. The ones I don't understand are the nose bleed suites I've seen at basketball arenas
  - dylan604 4y ago
    But it's not the same vantage. You're literally standing below them. Their feet are at your chest, your head is at their butt level. By the time the teams bring out all of their gear like big fans, work out equipment, storage cases, etc, a large portion of your direct view of the field is blocked. Then, even if you do get a view of the field, once the ball gets to your part of the view, the teams all mass around to get the same view you are wanting so now it is a solid wall of legs. It's a much better view as an on field something. I've been on the field as a credentialed photo/video person to so many stadiums. Been "on TV" more than once as I was caught near the action and people start texting "I saw you on TV" kind of stuff. I've even pulled another person out of the way as they were keyed in on the wrong part and the play was coming right at them (some people have zero situational awareness). That level of on field experience of sporting events is better than any suite experience.
decafninja 4y ago
Also at what point does watching a game live become worth it? I can pay a lot of money to get a good seat with a good view of the action. Or I can pay a lot less and get nosebleed seats - but why? At that point watching the game on TV seems to make more sense. Yes there is the "atmosphere" of being in the bleachers, but I'm not sure that's still worth being stuck up in the nosebleed tiers.
- allturtles 4y ago
  IMO even from the 'nosebleeds' a live game is better than the TV experience, because you can see all the action. The broadcast version generally follows the ball, so you can never see what the runners are doing.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    One of the best remote experiences I have had was very early on with MLB.tv where somehow we got access to all cameras in the stadium; you could pick the one you wanted to watch, or even open up multiple flash windows. It was kind of amazing.
    - TigeriusKirk 4y ago
      I don't know why this isn't the standard pro sports streaming experience. At least I can watch NFL game replays on All-22 cam, though it's delayed several days for some reason.
      - bombcar 4y ago
        I suspect it isn't common because of advertising (still) - at some point it may become an option but they'll want their advertising. For MLB it was working explicitly because MLB.tv did NOT get advertising at all, during commercial breaks you could watch the cameramen wander around and look at the stands, heh.
- bombcar 4y ago
  The nosebleed isn't bad if you want the enjoyment of being with other fans - but a local sports bar can often provide a similar experience. I know for baseball I preferred the nosebleed seats as I would be able to see the "whole field and action" even if a bit further away; some of the worst seats I ever had for watching the actual game was right behind third base; couldn't see much of anything but third base.
darth_avocado 4y ago
> I am skeptical how they calculated baseball numbers I went to a Giants game on Saturday and let me tell you they are underestimating how much things cost. The cheapest hotdogs were $11 + taxes and the cheapest beer was $12 + taxes. The cheapest and the saddest tickets still cost around $20. Also, it’s been almost a decade since I saw a $9 movie. The only time I’ve had cheaper was when VC funded movie pass was like a thing for 2 months.
mikkergp 4y ago
> This is a form of progressive pricing that allows the team to charge people who are price insensitive more while still being affordable. Is it not dystopian that we live in a world where a working class family can't take their kids to a baseball game and buy them a hotdog and a pop.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > Is it not dystopian that we live in a world where a working class family can't take their kids to a baseball game and buy them a hotdog and a pop. There are baseball games that aren't MLB. And they are more affordable. And there are more of them.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    The local high school games have hotdogs and pop; sometimes the local little league games have a food truck. Prices are almost too reasonable at times.
- LambdaComplex 4y ago
  I'm not gonna argue that we're not living in a dystopia, but I feel like that's a weird place to draw the line
  - mikkergp 4y ago
    Why would this be anywhere near the line? I think it's squarely within the line :-)
- thehappypm 4y ago
  Minor league baseball! I always loved going to the Scranton - Wilkes Barre Red Barons as a kid. Just went back for a game this year and food and bev is cheap, parking and getting in/out is easy. A great family experience — and as a kid it’s really similar. I caught a foul ball at a Red Barons game and it was more magical than anything Shea Stadium or Yankee Stadium ever gave me.
eatsyourtacos 4y ago
>The thing is, food is optional! Have you ever gone anywhere with kids? If you can't bring food with you, it's not optional. Do you enjoy drinking beer? Probably 90%+ of adults who go to a baseball game would like to enjoy some drinks during a 4 hour game with so much downtime. So this argument of "but it's optional!" is pretty dumb. That's like going to a movie theatre and saying "well, popcorn and soda/drinks are optional!! look how cheap it is!". I mean, sure, but it's also a ridiculous argument for nearly everyone. Again, especially if one has kids.
sheepybloke 4y ago
A lot of baseball stadiums also allow you to bring food and sealed pop into the stadium. My wife and I stop at the Gus's or Safeway around the corner of Oracle Park and grab a sandwich or snacks and a pop before we go to the Giants game. Add in outfield tickets and CalTrain and we can go pretty inexpensively.

Spooky23 4y ago

I agree, especially when looking at Mets and Yankees tickets. The price difference isn’t really there. We are a huge baseball family do a big extended family trip to the Yankees every year - usually $5-12 for 30 bleacher seats to a weekday game. I’m a Mets fan, and we usually do a few of games a year. One of the things about the baseball experience is there are lots of ways to enjoy it. Usually we do one “big” trip where we score a deal on a resale ticket behind the plate or first base, often including food for $100-150. Then we’ll do a couple of SRO or upper deck trips with a $5-12 ticket. And we’ll also do lower level outfield tickets for $30-80. I grew up I the 80s, and times weren’t all magic and marshmallows then either. My dad worked for the city and my mom was a nurse. We couldn’t afford fancy baseline seats at big city ballparks then either. Baseball is different in smaller markets though. If you’re in Pittsburgh or Cincinnati, your baseball ticket options are very different.

allturtles 4y ago

> Yes of course if you buy a whole bunch of Stadium food it is expensive, but one of the entire gimmicks of the baseball stadium is that they make most of the money on beer and food. The thing is, food is optional! This is a form of progressive pricing that allows the team to charge people who are price insensitive more while still being affordable. I don't think it's realistic to expect a family of four to have a good time sitting through a three hour baseball game without any food. And if their historical pricing data is correct, food and drink prices were comparatively much more reasonable in the 60s, so it's not a inherent property of ballparks to have outrageous concession prices. > One last thing is to note that the experience at the stadium has changed enormously. Stadiums in the 60s were basically a bigger version of high school bleachers. Now they’re luxury palaces. Here's a picture of the seats at Coors Field today [0]. Here's some pictures of 1960s baseball stadium seating [1][2]. They look pretty much the same to me. Now you get a cupholder, I guess? [0]: https://www.thedenverchannel.com/sports/rockies/heres-what-going-to-a-rockies-game-at-coors-field-will-look-like-this-year https://www.thedenverchannel.com/sports/rockies/heres-what-g... [1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/19/sports/baseball/al-jackson-dead.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/19/sports/baseball/al-jackso... [2]: https://nxstrib-com.go-vip.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2015/04/cubs6.png https://nxstrib-com.go-vip.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/20...

njarboe 4y ago
When I went to an Oakland A's game about a decade ago you were allowed to bring in your own food (not alcohol, of course). Not sure if that is still the case or if other stadiums allow that also. Getting a hot dog is fun, but you could bring in peanuts, popcorn, sandwiches, etc. and many people did.
- crftr 4y ago
  I'm a Padres fan, and I regularly see folks bring in Jimmy John sandwiches and candy. It's not a secret, but rarely publicized either.
  - bombcar 4y ago

dylan604 4y ago

I've been to a few different stadiums and been in several different suites (as a vendor, not like I'd ever pay for that crap). A lot of the game is spent watching TV screens in the suite watching the same thing that people at home are seeing for free-ish. Jerry World (aka where the Cowboys play for those not familiar) has ground level suites where you are actually standing slightly below the field. Once the game starts and the teams are along the sidelines in their normal placements, all you see are the backsides of the players waiting to do their jobs. Again, you spend the majority of the time looking up at the giant TV to see actual game play. Clear evidence that a fool and his money are easily parted.

bombcar 4y ago
Even worse - I've been to the suites at Petco park; where a Major League Baseball game was going on, and everyone was watching basketball or other sports on the TVs. Nobody besides me and one other dude even bothered to go out on the balcony and watch the game. Of course, these were "free tickets" from vendor schmooze, so perhaps that's understandable.
mitchdoogle 4y ago
Those ground level suites at the Cowboys game look pretty cool to me. It's a different level of experience, like literally being in the middle of the action, getting the same vantage point as players and coaches. The ones I don't understand are the nose bleed suites I've seen at basketball arenas
- dylan604 4y ago
  But it's not the same vantage. You're literally standing below them. Their feet are at your chest, your head is at their butt level. By the time the teams bring out all of their gear like big fans, work out equipment, storage cases, etc, a large portion of your direct view of the field is blocked. Then, even if you do get a view of the field, once the ball gets to your part of the view, the teams all mass around to get the same view you are wanting so now it is a solid wall of legs. It's a much better view as an on field something. I've been on the field as a credentialed photo/video person to so many stadiums. Been "on TV" more than once as I was caught near the action and people start texting "I saw you on TV" kind of stuff. I've even pulled another person out of the way as they were keyed in on the wrong part and the play was coming right at them (some people have zero situational awareness). That level of on field experience of sporting events is better than any suite experience.

decafninja 4y ago

Also at what point does watching a game live become worth it? I can pay a lot of money to get a good seat with a good view of the action. Or I can pay a lot less and get nosebleed seats - but why? At that point watching the game on TV seems to make more sense. Yes there is the "atmosphere" of being in the bleachers, but I'm not sure that's still worth being stuck up in the nosebleed tiers.

allturtles 4y ago
IMO even from the 'nosebleeds' a live game is better than the TV experience, because you can see all the action. The broadcast version generally follows the ball, so you can never see what the runners are doing.
- bombcar 4y ago
  One of the best remote experiences I have had was very early on with MLB.tv where somehow we got access to all cameras in the stadium; you could pick the one you wanted to watch, or even open up multiple flash windows. It was kind of amazing.
  - TigeriusKirk 4y ago
    I don't know why this isn't the standard pro sports streaming experience. At least I can watch NFL game replays on All-22 cam, though it's delayed several days for some reason.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      I suspect it isn't common because of advertising (still) - at some point it may become an option but they'll want their advertising. For MLB it was working explicitly because MLB.tv did NOT get advertising at all, during commercial breaks you could watch the cameramen wander around and look at the stands, heh.
bombcar 4y ago
The nosebleed isn't bad if you want the enjoyment of being with other fans - but a local sports bar can often provide a similar experience. I know for baseball I preferred the nosebleed seats as I would be able to see the "whole field and action" even if a bit further away; some of the worst seats I ever had for watching the actual game was right behind third base; couldn't see much of anything but third base.

darth_avocado 4y ago

> I am skeptical how they calculated baseball numbers I went to a Giants game on Saturday and let me tell you they are underestimating how much things cost. The cheapest hotdogs were $11 + taxes and the cheapest beer was $12 + taxes. The cheapest and the saddest tickets still cost around $20. Also, it’s been almost a decade since I saw a $9 movie. The only time I’ve had cheaper was when VC funded movie pass was like a thing for 2 months.

mikkergp 4y ago

> This is a form of progressive pricing that allows the team to charge people who are price insensitive more while still being affordable. Is it not dystopian that we live in a world where a working class family can't take their kids to a baseball game and buy them a hotdog and a pop.

dragonwriter 4y ago
> Is it not dystopian that we live in a world where a working class family can't take their kids to a baseball game and buy them a hotdog and a pop. There are baseball games that aren't MLB. And they are more affordable. And there are more of them.
- bombcar 4y ago
  The local high school games have hotdogs and pop; sometimes the local little league games have a food truck. Prices are almost too reasonable at times.
LambdaComplex 4y ago
I'm not gonna argue that we're not living in a dystopia, but I feel like that's a weird place to draw the line
- mikkergp 4y ago
  Why would this be anywhere near the line? I think it's squarely within the line :-)
thehappypm 4y ago
Minor league baseball! I always loved going to the Scranton - Wilkes Barre Red Barons as a kid. Just went back for a game this year and food and bev is cheap, parking and getting in/out is easy. A great family experience — and as a kid it’s really similar. I caught a foul ball at a Red Barons game and it was more magical than anything Shea Stadium or Yankee Stadium ever gave me.

eatsyourtacos 4y ago

>The thing is, food is optional! Have you ever gone anywhere with kids? If you can't bring food with you, it's not optional. Do you enjoy drinking beer? Probably 90%+ of adults who go to a baseball game would like to enjoy some drinks during a 4 hour game with so much downtime. So this argument of "but it's optional!" is pretty dumb. That's like going to a movie theatre and saying "well, popcorn and soda/drinks are optional!! look how cheap it is!". I mean, sure, but it's also a ridiculous argument for nearly everyone. Again, especially if one has kids.

sheepybloke 4y ago

A lot of baseball stadiums also allow you to bring food and sealed pop into the stadium. My wife and I stop at the Gus's or Safeway around the corner of Oracle Park and grab a sandwich or snacks and a pop before we go to the Giants game. Add in outfield tickets and CalTrain and we can go pretty inexpensively.