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Even camping is getting expensive too.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
If you camp like they did in the 60s? I don’t. I have a modern backpack with a camel pack and lightweight tent and electric lantern et cetera. But those are one-time costs. And they’re totally optional. Car camping is still highly accessible and cheap as hell.
- Schroedingersat 4y ago
  None of those things relate to being charged $15 per night per person for a spot with no facilities where you carry everything out 5km from the nearest transport.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > None of those things relate to being charged $15 per night per person for a spot with no facilities Back-country rangers have to be paid. And campers cause more damage than day hikers. That requires enforcement and mitigation. I believe NPS fees have tracked under inflation over the decades. Camping, based on fees alone, is cheaper than it once was. (And if you don’t want to pay the Park Service there are our National Forests.)
    - dahart 4y ago
      > Camping, based on fees alone, is cheaper than it once was. This sounds right to me, a lot of my local parks seem to have rarely or never increased fees for decades. Several nearby canyon parks have had the same fees as long as I can remember. I keep expecting an increase, and am consistently surprised year after year that the prices stay fixed, making it relatively cheaper each year. Even the annual park fees are super low, making it incredibly easy to amortize the per-night cost of camping to be even cheaper, provided you want to do it more than once or twice in a year.
roflyear 4y ago
I live in one of the most expensive places in the US and camp sites are almost free. Tents are not super expensive?
- dukeofdoom 4y ago
  I live in Southern Ontario, and there are no free campsites anywhere near here. So If I was going to go camping for a weekend, this would be my minimum costs. Ontario Park Campsite $59/night x 2 = $120 Firewood 2 x $15 = $30 Food $30+ Beer $20. Tank of Gas $100+ _________ Total $300+
  - dahart 4y ago
    Why did you use the most expensive AA level? Aren’t the “minimum” costs available at C level spots? Looks like there are sites where you can pay $35 instead of $60. Certainly you could also do a minimum 1 night stay, rather than 2 nights? https://www.ontarioparks.com/fees/camping/2022 https://www.ontarioparks.com/fees/camping/2022 Your consumption of gas, beer, firewood and food don’t really support the idea of increased camping costs either, right? You’d likely have beer & food & heating, and drive somewhere anyway, no? Nothing here except the park fee is specific to camping, and aside from gas this year they haven’t increased by much either.
    - dukeofdoom 4y ago
      The cheapest campsite I found near by is $42 for non electric. Provincial parks tend to sell out. 1 x $42.00 CampFee-A-NE $42.00 1 x $9.73 ReservationFee-web $9.73 Subtotal $51.73 Not that far off. This is a non electric campsite. I would like an electric campsite for various reasons.
      - roflyear 4y ago
        I mean, $50/day for vacation for multiple people is hardly expensive. I think most people can afford that.
  - 4y ago
edmcnulty101 4y ago
The campground reservation system has caused me more issues than the price. I drove through a "full" campground a few weekends ago and half the spots were empty. People are making reservations and not showing up.
- bombcar 4y ago
  This is something you get whenever there's a reservation system, even with a cost, if the cost is "minor" enough. And the problem with campsites is they're often far enough from the inhabited areas that you can't just "waitlist" people at the last minute like restaurants do.
  - edmcnulty101 4y ago
    Reservations at campground didn't exist until relatively recently also and that maximized the space better than the reservations systems. Another solution is a huge deposit.
- floren 4y ago
  I think online reservations are kind of a problem by being so low-friction and often free. I'm seeing more and more restaurants requiring a significant deposit with a reservation, because apparently there are a lot of no-shows. I kind of suspect that people are making several reservations for the same night, then deciding on the day which place they want to go to. Why not, when it takes about 3 clicks to go from Google Maps to a completed reservation? The deposits are OpenTable & friends' way of solving a problem that was introduced by their own product! It seems like the basic effort of picking up a phone and actually speaking to a person at the restaurant or campground to make the reservation would have two positive effects: it adds a little friction so it's not as easy to make half a dozen reservations, and when you speak to that person it reinforces in your mind that you have made an agreement to show up for this thing.
aaronax 4y ago
So much bloat in campgrounds. Paved pads, 50A electric, game rooms, continental breakfasts, ridiculous playgrounds, etc. The economical options are still out there, mostly state parks and city run venues. Don't be surprised when they don't have a pull through spot that can accomodate an $80,000 fifth wheel with two AC's though.
macksd 4y ago
It was fairly recently that I discovered people in my state were trying to book camping trips (and RV trips) 6 months in advance (and then just not going if they couldn't) because there are a few reservable spots that everybody wants to get. It baffles me that even living near a national forest, most people aren't just driving into it and finding an empty spot to camp. Even with all the unpleasantness, people seem to think they MUST book go to a crowded place where all the nature has been cleared away to make room for someone to park their tent trailer night after night. I take friends camping with me and show them spots I just found myself in the forest and they're amazed at how quiet, beautiful, and easy it is to just decide at the last minute we're gonna go pitch a tent in the forest. It seems to me that a lot of the things people think are expensive are things that they unnecessarily insist on relying on someone else for, and / or that they do not lower their demand for regardless of the price. Well then, of course it's expensive.
- bombcar 4y ago
  People don't like "actual camping" now that we have campsites with toilets, showers, and all sorts of amenities.
- nanidin 4y ago
  The concept of pulling into a National Forest (or other BLM land) and setting up a tent anywhere is jarring for someone that isn't familiar with it already. The absolute freedom (and accompanying rules that aren't available on site, but that you're expected to abide by) is daunting when you've been conditioned that in order to stay somewhere you must pay and that there will be an obvious place to park your vehicle. The first time I did it, I felt like I was doing something wrong and that a ranger could show up at any time to ticket me for camping too close to the road or doing something else wrong. Forums are full of warnings to use apps to make sure you're not on someone's private property adjacent to or embedded within the public land, lest they show up with a shotgun. A lot of people have never been introduced to the concept of public land in a way that makes it seem like a viable/legit option.
  - tayo42 4y ago
    I looked into this when I saw how impossible it is to get a camp site. In California you can't have camp fires which is a downside. Also the logistics weren't obvious. How do I even find a spot, where can I leave my car, what can I bring.

If you camp like they did in the 60s? I don’t. I have a modern backpack with a camel pack and lightweight tent and electric lantern et cetera. But those are one-time costs. And they’re totally optional. Car camping is still highly accessible and cheap as hell.

Schroedingersat 4y ago
None of those things relate to being charged $15 per night per person for a spot with no facilities where you carry everything out 5km from the nearest transport.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > None of those things relate to being charged $15 per night per person for a spot with no facilities Back-country rangers have to be paid. And campers cause more damage than day hikers. That requires enforcement and mitigation. I believe NPS fees have tracked under inflation over the decades. Camping, based on fees alone, is cheaper than it once was. (And if you don’t want to pay the Park Service there are our National Forests.)
  - dahart 4y ago
    > Camping, based on fees alone, is cheaper than it once was. This sounds right to me, a lot of my local parks seem to have rarely or never increased fees for decades. Several nearby canyon parks have had the same fees as long as I can remember. I keep expecting an increase, and am consistently surprised year after year that the prices stay fixed, making it relatively cheaper each year. Even the annual park fees are super low, making it incredibly easy to amortize the per-night cost of camping to be even cheaper, provided you want to do it more than once or twice in a year.

roflyear 4y ago

I live in one of the most expensive places in the US and camp sites are almost free. Tents are not super expensive?

dukeofdoom 4y ago
I live in Southern Ontario, and there are no free campsites anywhere near here. So If I was going to go camping for a weekend, this would be my minimum costs. Ontario Park Campsite $59/night x 2 = $120 Firewood 2 x $15 = $30 Food $30+ Beer $20. Tank of Gas $100+ _________ Total $300+
- dahart 4y ago
  Why did you use the most expensive AA level? Aren’t the “minimum” costs available at C level spots? Looks like there are sites where you can pay $35 instead of $60. Certainly you could also do a minimum 1 night stay, rather than 2 nights? https://www.ontarioparks.com/fees/camping/2022 https://www.ontarioparks.com/fees/camping/2022 Your consumption of gas, beer, firewood and food don’t really support the idea of increased camping costs either, right? You’d likely have beer & food & heating, and drive somewhere anyway, no? Nothing here except the park fee is specific to camping, and aside from gas this year they haven’t increased by much either.
  - dukeofdoom 4y ago
    The cheapest campsite I found near by is $42 for non electric. Provincial parks tend to sell out. 1 x $42.00 CampFee-A-NE $42.00 1 x $9.73 ReservationFee-web $9.73 Subtotal $51.73 Not that far off. This is a non electric campsite. I would like an electric campsite for various reasons.
    - roflyear 4y ago
      I mean, $50/day for vacation for multiple people is hardly expensive. I think most people can afford that.
- 4y ago

edmcnulty101 4y ago

The campground reservation system has caused me more issues than the price. I drove through a "full" campground a few weekends ago and half the spots were empty. People are making reservations and not showing up.

bombcar 4y ago
This is something you get whenever there's a reservation system, even with a cost, if the cost is "minor" enough. And the problem with campsites is they're often far enough from the inhabited areas that you can't just "waitlist" people at the last minute like restaurants do.
- edmcnulty101 4y ago
  Reservations at campground didn't exist until relatively recently also and that maximized the space better than the reservations systems. Another solution is a huge deposit.
floren 4y ago
I think online reservations are kind of a problem by being so low-friction and often free. I'm seeing more and more restaurants requiring a significant deposit with a reservation, because apparently there are a lot of no-shows. I kind of suspect that people are making several reservations for the same night, then deciding on the day which place they want to go to. Why not, when it takes about 3 clicks to go from Google Maps to a completed reservation? The deposits are OpenTable & friends' way of solving a problem that was introduced by their own product! It seems like the basic effort of picking up a phone and actually speaking to a person at the restaurant or campground to make the reservation would have two positive effects: it adds a little friction so it's not as easy to make half a dozen reservations, and when you speak to that person it reinforces in your mind that you have made an agreement to show up for this thing.

aaronax 4y ago

So much bloat in campgrounds. Paved pads, 50A electric, game rooms, continental breakfasts, ridiculous playgrounds, etc. The economical options are still out there, mostly state parks and city run venues. Don't be surprised when they don't have a pull through spot that can accomodate an $80,000 fifth wheel with two AC's though.

macksd 4y ago

It was fairly recently that I discovered people in my state were trying to book camping trips (and RV trips) 6 months in advance (and then just not going if they couldn't) because there are a few reservable spots that everybody wants to get. It baffles me that even living near a national forest, most people aren't just driving into it and finding an empty spot to camp. Even with all the unpleasantness, people seem to think they MUST book go to a crowded place where all the nature has been cleared away to make room for someone to park their tent trailer night after night. I take friends camping with me and show them spots I just found myself in the forest and they're amazed at how quiet, beautiful, and easy it is to just decide at the last minute we're gonna go pitch a tent in the forest. It seems to me that a lot of the things people think are expensive are things that they unnecessarily insist on relying on someone else for, and / or that they do not lower their demand for regardless of the price. Well then, of course it's expensive.

bombcar 4y ago
People don't like "actual camping" now that we have campsites with toilets, showers, and all sorts of amenities.
nanidin 4y ago
The concept of pulling into a National Forest (or other BLM land) and setting up a tent anywhere is jarring for someone that isn't familiar with it already. The absolute freedom (and accompanying rules that aren't available on site, but that you're expected to abide by) is daunting when you've been conditioned that in order to stay somewhere you must pay and that there will be an obvious place to park your vehicle. The first time I did it, I felt like I was doing something wrong and that a ranger could show up at any time to ticket me for camping too close to the road or doing something else wrong. Forums are full of warnings to use apps to make sure you're not on someone's private property adjacent to or embedded within the public land, lest they show up with a shotgun. A lot of people have never been introduced to the concept of public land in a way that makes it seem like a viable/legit option.
- tayo42 4y ago
  I looked into this when I saw how impossible it is to get a camp site. In California you can't have camp fires which is a downside. Also the logistics weren't obvious. How do I even find a spot, where can I leave my car, what can I bring.